Personally, I'd rather direct-combat lighter vehicles' veterancy aid them in being more..."usable" later in the game over flat health buffs.
Something like M3A1 Scout Cars gain range at vet 3 so they can keep away from Panzerfausts easier, or Flak HT gains bonus sight (if need be, only while set down) at vet 2 so they won't have to be nestled nicely in the rest of your forces to shoot at max range, or T-70 has much lower movement penalties at vet 3 to make them feel worthwhile later when you note a weakness in enemy lines for it to exploit for at least a little while before the enemy comes down on it. Stuff which make using them in combat while there's multiple AT guns on the map easier, but not necessarily flat-out better in combat-effectiveness.
light tanks and half tracks
9 Oct 2015, 19:38 PM
#21
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
9 Oct 2015, 19:53 PM
#22
Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7
if he makes 2 at guns he spend 640 mp to counter one unit, use your own manpower bonus to push him off field , outcap him and maybe even make huge psuh and seize his paks 
And use your t 70 to wipe brave soldiers that attept to harras your cut off , not as main tank pusher
And use your t 70 to wipe brave soldiers that attept to harras your cut off , not as main tank pusher
9 Oct 2015, 20:13 PM
#23
Posts: 503
if he makes 2 at guns he spend 640 mp to counter one unit, use your own manpower bonus to push him off field , outcap him and maybe even make huge psuh and seize his paks
And use your t 70 to wipe brave soldiers that attept to harras your cut off , not as main tank pusher
Certainly a valid point but it isn't like SU, Ost, and UKF aren't already building at least 2 ATG by mid game since you need them to support against heavier armor....
9 Oct 2015, 20:19 PM
#24
Posts: 341
imo the whole at gun thingy needs a rework , i think AT guns should be mainly for knocking out heavys and mediums, light vehicles need to be faster and with smaller profiles so that they can dodge at guns shots i think a 50% less received accuracy from AT guns would be great .
but this will again Ruin the game balance even more cuz of the difference in teching speed and costs between different factions.
It would be nice to see M3s and 222s way more resistant to small arms fire as well.
Adding a "get out of jail free card" (non doctrinal smoke screens or maybe overdrive),for the light vehicles for all factions would solve this issue
but this will again Ruin the game balance even more cuz of the difference in teching speed and costs between different factions.
It would be nice to see M3s and 222s way more resistant to small arms fire as well.
Adding a "get out of jail free card" (non doctrinal smoke screens or maybe overdrive),for the light vehicles for all factions would solve this issue
9 Oct 2015, 20:51 PM
#25
Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7
Certainly a valid point but it isn't like SU, Ost, and UKF aren't already building at least 2 ATG by mid game since you need them to support against heavier armor....
As ostheer i often go 1 at gun + spotting 222 + covered by grens and telermines , because i cant afford loosing so much mp to unit i can live without.
As ukf you need 2 at guns to cover you centaur , but that is ok because he can do Ai job really well.
But why going double AT gun as soviets mid game ?
At time when oswind / panzer 4 arrive you will need onlY 1 AT gun and you will build just 1 Su76 so i dont see the point why you need 2 at guns the time when t 70 arrive , better to invest in guards , shocks , new maxim , healing , to increase map presence push him of and decrease his fuel and slow his p4. It maybe dont even arrive or you will steal pak or it will arive at time when its gg + it hit well positioned mine and you have su 76 and cosncripts with at nades.
I never go double zis as soviets until i get my kv8 becuase t70 can fight off everithing what is on ield right now and agains panzer 4 mines and 1 zis are more than enaught
9 Oct 2015, 20:55 PM
#26
Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7
imo the whole at gun thingy needs a rework , i think AT guns should be mainly for knocking out heavys and mediums, light vehicles need to be faster and with smaller profiles so that they can dodge at guns shots i think a 50% less received accuracy from AT guns would be great .
but this will again Ruin the game balance even more cuz of the difference in teching speed and costs between different factions.
It would be nice to see M3s and 222s way more resistant to small arms fire as well.
Adding a "get out of jail free card" (non doctrinal smoke screens or maybe overdrive),for the light vehicles for all factions would solve this issue
Light vehilces are fine , dont fix what is not broken .
They give huge shock value and ostheer have really big problems to fight em off (+ infatry ) at same time , they surely loose some part of map , vehicles add pressure on em and maybe even force ostheer to sacrifice tiger for fast puma. (im not saying its imposible , often well playce teller means no vehicle , but ostheer have harder time mid game compared to soviets and USA , they are on fair play only in early late game and late game their supperior if usa doesnt go easy 8 / m10 spam and soviets doesnt go is2 or t 34/85s)
No i dont want t 70 with smoke
Sorry i have to write it but this is L2P issue when you cannot utilise vehicles.
9 Oct 2015, 21:00 PM
#27
Posts: 503
As ostheer i often go 1 at gun + spotting 222 + covered by grens and telermines , because i cant afford loosing so much mp to unit i can live without.
As ukf you need 2 at guns to cover you centaur , but that is ok because he can do Ai job really well.
But why going double AT gun as soviets mid game ?
At time when oswind / panzer 4 arrive you will need onlY 1 AT gun and you will build just 1 Su76 so i dont see the point why you need 2 at guns the time when t 70 arrive , better to invest in guards , shocks , new maxim , healing , to increase map presence push him of and decrease his fuel and slow his p4. It maybe dont even arrive or you will steal pak or it will arive at time when its gg + it hit well positioned mine and you have su 76 and cosncripts with at nades.
I never go double zis as soviets until i get my kv8 becuase t70 can fight off everithing what is on ield right now and agains panzer 4 mines and 1 zis are more than enaught
I do often get an SU-76 instead of 2nd Zis but in 1v1 SU-85s are bad and T-34/76's suck in all modes so I still like a 2nd Zis as the barrage is very handy to dislodge MGs if I don't have a mortar...I noticed almost all the OCF SU games involved 2 or more Zis by the time 7-8 CPs came.
9 Oct 2015, 21:06 PM
#28
Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7
I do often get an SU-76 instead of 2nd Zis but in 1v1 SU-85s are bad and T-34/76's suck in all modes so I still like a 2nd Zis as the barrage is very handy to dislodge MGs if I don't have a mortar...I noticed almost all the OCF SU games involved 2 or more Zis by the time 7-8 CPs came.
t70 arrives before puma or at same time as puma if you crew early game and puma comes at 5 CPs.
Of course you need 2 paks later as mediums start to appear and you try to rush kv8 or stall in for is2 , t34/85 , isu152 but at 5Cps you will do better if you just make medics or new squad before going double pak , you have lot of time to get 2 paks , and if you have only 1 at that time (7CPs) game isnt over if you place mines and have consc to supprot that at gun or you build one suchka to support at gun
9 Oct 2015, 21:38 PM
#29
Posts: 341
Light vehilces are fine , dont fix what is not broken .
They give huge shock value and ostheer have really big problems to fight em off (+ infatry ) at same time , they surely loose some part of map , vehicles add pressure on em and maybe even force ostheer to sacrifice tiger for fast puma. (im not saying its imposible , often well playce teller means no vehicle , but ostheer have harder time mid game compared to soviets and USA , they are on fair play only in early late game and late game their supperior if usa doesnt go easy 8 / m10 spam and soviets doesnt go is2 or t 34/85s)
No i dont want t 70 with smoke
Sorry i have to write it but this is L2P issue when you cannot utilise vehicles.
I don't play with soviets anw i play ostheer mostly , i just think it would be fair to buff all light vehicles cuz light vehicle play is much more attractive than the turtling heavy tank boring play .
10 Oct 2015, 06:26 AM
#30
Posts: 1063
I seriously never had the feeling that the AEC was a resource sink. Although it seriously need some love.
Save fuel for Centaur is still the more solid choice. Unless OKW goes Flak HT or OH goes Stug E spam, there's no reason to go AEC.
10 Oct 2015, 07:56 AM
#31
Posts: 1384
Don't scout with your vehicle if you don't want to be shot with surprise AT guns.
Light vehicles are fine. Halftracks might need some buffing, but considering how potent reinforcement is I'm not sure if it's actually necessary. They both have powerful weapon upgrades as well.
Light vehicles are fine. Halftracks might need some buffing, but considering how potent reinforcement is I'm not sure if it's actually necessary. They both have powerful weapon upgrades as well.
10 Oct 2015, 17:18 PM
#32
Posts: 503
Don't scout with your vehicle if you don't want to be shot with surprise AT guns.
Light vehicles are fine. Halftracks might need some buffing, but considering how potent reinforcement is I'm not sure if it's actually necessary. They both have powerful weapon upgrades as well.
But light vehicles should be serving the role of mobile recon which is historical and provides good gameplay. They could all use a slight sight increase to have more relevance in late game. Only way light vehicle and tank have relevance now is of they get to Vet 2 where most get a massive sight increase or spotting scope +222 on certain Ostheer docs. T-70 at least has a recon mode where you trade fire power for vision. I think all non half tracks should get that option because if you lose them and you are in late game it's foolish to get a vet0 light vehicle/tank as getting it back to vet 2 for the sight bonus will be very perilous with all the AT around plus your army is at max size and you don't want vet 0 a micro heavy unit.
TL;DR we need recon options on most if not all light vehicles that aren't half tracks as they could then trade fire power for increased scouting fulfilling their historical role and keeping them relevant when medium and heavy armor hits the field.
10 Oct 2015, 19:19 PM
#33
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
T70 has recon mode to scout ahead and repair crew (which should heal for more than 100hp for cost) to survive an extra pak shot.
Luch and Stuart already have 400hp.
HT hp pools are fine since they arrive way earlier. Only Flak HT needs a +20hp since it needs to deploy (or it's DPS could be reworked in order to be able to shoot on the move). It also has vet1 smoke for free.
Scoutcars are meant for the early game and as harassing tools. They have accordingly hp pools. The weird ones are the 222 (which is an in between early and mid) and the Greyhound
Luch and Stuart already have 400hp.
HT hp pools are fine since they arrive way earlier. Only Flak HT needs a +20hp since it needs to deploy (or it's DPS could be reworked in order to be able to shoot on the move). It also has vet1 smoke for free.
Scoutcars are meant for the early game and as harassing tools. They have accordingly hp pools. The weird ones are the 222 (which is an in between early and mid) and the Greyhound
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
10 Oct 2015, 20:01 PM
#34
Posts: 1384
But light vehicles should be serving the role of mobile recon
They still do, but that doesn't mean you drive through an area where he PROBABLY has an AT gun recklessly.
Game sense is important here.
12 Oct 2015, 00:23 AM
#35
Posts: 503
They still do, but that doesn't mean you drive through an area where he PROBABLY has an AT gun recklessly.
Game sense is important here.
I don't drive them recklessly but I also don't even try to use them to scout front lines once medium armor is on field. One shot from either ATG or tank and small arms fire/snare can finish them. I don't want them to have more health just better evasion vs ATG/Armor
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