USF's and UKF's Heavy Arty Alternatives

Problems:

Rather then having a purchasable rocket artillery unit like the katyusha, stuka, and panzerwherfer like all the other factions, both USF and UKF instead have a munitions based alternative. Unfortunately despite being rather different, both these alternatives are largely unused in common meta due to lacking stats and inconsistent results.

USF's Major's artillery:


For the price of 2 bars the player gets the "amazing" ability of making their opponent move slightly over a few yards. Neither quick enough to hit mobile targets, nor hard hitting enough to significantly damage static ones, with a giant red sign that says "don't stand here", it's really hard to find any use for this ability. The somewhat hefty munitions cost is often spent on just about anything else.

With only the M8 (A glorified mortar on treads) to rely on instead, USF lacks the indirect firepower to make significant breakthroughs come the late game.


UKF's Base 25-pounders:

With a whopping 8 shells for only 40 muni, this ability sounds like a great way to make up for the fact that the british's only indirect unit is a static emplacement.

In reality, this ability has terrible scatter, bad damage profiles, and can be only activated within grenade range of it's target, making it quite useless despite it's low cost. Often times your oppponent often won't even need to move despite being in the center of it's effect.

Even worse, the time it takes to fire is wildly inconsistent thanks to the howitzers need to position after the ability is used.


Solutions:

USF's Major Artillery:

Removal of flares
Munitions cost lowered to 100
Major no longer gets veterancy passively(need to use the ability to get the 5 shells)
Off-map firing sound increased


If this ability is going to make up for not having on-map heavy indirect option, it needs to act like a heavy indirect option. And players aren't going to invest 100+ munitions into a small scale call-in that is so likely to miss. Removal of the flares allows for a more consistent effect on the battle. It's still not quite the hardest hitting thing out there and players should be able to tell it's being used, but as long as the flare exists and the ability is so easy to tell where and when it's being used, it won't see any use. Especially in high level games, where a player needs to be completely negligent to allow it to make contact.

UKF's base 25-pounder:

Added pre-target ability in base structure (Allows player to aim the artillery before the abilities use.)
Shells damage profiles made equivalent to LeFH's
Scatter slightly reduced
Flare range increased by 10
Cost increased by 20 munitions


While there is the obvious changes to make the artillery actually hit what you are aiming at and be effective when it does. The most necessary addition would be to allow the player to aim the artillery pieces before-hand to get rid of the ridiculously inconsistent firing time.

This ability still can be quite powerful, but without any mobile indirect squads, players need it to be effective since they lack many methods of fighting from afar. The flare changes being important to allow them to counter things like liegs and mortars if they get close or at very least act as area denial to let up pressure. And the ability should remains quite inaccurate to make up for it's high damage potential.

Why copy-paste my formatting style? That is not a bad thing though.



Major arty could undergo a cost reduction.

USF currently has the best Howitzer (Priest, 200 damage with good AoE profile and the ability to decrew. Also can move around to reduce scatter) in the entire game, and the 25 Pounders have the same scatter as the ML-20 and LefH do.

Major Artillery also got fixed in a recent patch, meaning it can actually deal with static emplacements now.

EDIT: And no removal of flares please, got help us that shit is bad enough on several of the British artillery call in's. Not every has their sound turned all the way up and the artillery firing sound can easily get drowned out.

Major arty needs to change yes. Not sure about the brits though, I don't want the brits to have non-doc arty that's pretty good. That does not seem to be a good idea.

USF currently has the best Howitzer (Priest, 200 damage with good AoE profile and the ability to decrew. Also can move around to reduce scatter) in the entire game, and the 25 Pounders have the same scatter as the ML-20 and LefH do.

Major Artillery also got fixed in a recent patch, meaning it can actually deal with static emplacements now.

EDIT: And no removal of flares please, got help us that shit is bad enough on several of the British artillery call in's. Not every has their sound turned all the way up and the artillery firing sound can easily get drowned out.

A doctrinal unit is not an excuse to not have proper tools within their non-doctrinal units. How would you feel if OKW's incindiary grenades were locked in a doctrine? You'd still be complaining about their anti-garrison ability.

And Neither stuka, panzerwherfer, or katyusha drop flares where they are about to fire. And all those can wipe entire armies if aimed correctly. I don't see how the major's artillery would be any more powereful then a barrage from one of them?

Major arty needs to change yes. Not sure about the brits though, I don't want the brits to have non-doc arty that's pretty good. That does not seem to be a good idea.

I put a bit there. To be honest I think being able to pre-target the guns would be a good buff to start with. I'm tired of waiting for that second arty piece to do a complete 180 before firing. Perhaps I can get a better feel for the ability if it wasn't so highly erratic.

A doctrinal unit is not an excuse to not have proper tools within their non-doctrinal units. How would you feel if OKW's incindiary grenades were locked in a doctrine? You'd still be complaining about their anti-garrison ability.

Except multiple USF doctrines have call in artillery that can take the place of bombardment artillery. And USF will be getting more doctrines with even more call in's and a new indirect unit. OKW needed Incen nades because OKW lacked an sort of garrison counter early on in the game, and OKW doctrines didn't give any real alternative.

Contrary to popular belief I do actually play USF and so far Iv not had really any issues with lack of artillery. Especially now that the Pack Howi is quite accurate.

And Neither stuka, panzerwherfer, or katyusha drop flares where they are about to fire. And all those can wipe entire armies if aimed correctly. I don't see how the major's artillery would be any more powereful then a barrage from one of them?

Because those all have a travel/hang time on the shells and you can reasonable predict were they will land. Your also forced to use them based on range meaning that you can tell what will be hit based on were the thing is shooting from.

By your logic why would any artillery have flares?

Less arty, more coh2. I'm fine with the fact that arty supports your infantry and doesn't win the games for you.

Also lolling that you want to remove flares from major arty. More wipes you can't avoid is what we need in this game.

At least brits have that doctrinal late game arty (air supremacy).

USF needs the calliope asap coz they late game indirect fire power is terrible,the priest is good, but only against static targets and not a blob counter like the walking stuka,panzerwerfer and katyusha.

ps : i know i get off topic but lelic plz , can't you see that usf is the only faction without a rocket launcher ?

I put a bit there. To be honest I think being able to pre-target the guns would be a good buff to start with. I'm tired of waiting for that second arty piece to do a complete 180 before firing. Perhaps I can get a better feel for the ability if it wasn't so highly erratic.

Or at least allow the guns to fire separately so that gun facing the right way fires first while the other one rotates. Less saturation but at least the delay isn't so horrid.

In principle I like most of the suggested changes though.

Except multiple USF doctrines have call in artillery that can take the place of bombardment artillery. And USF will be getting more doctrines with even more call in's and a new indirect unit. OKW needed Incen nades because OKW lacked an sort of garrison counter early on in the game, and OKW doctrines didn't give any real alternative.

Contrary to popular belief I do actually play USF and so far Iv not had really any issues with lack of artillery. Especially now that the Pack Howi is quite accurate.



Because those all have a travel/hang time on the shells and you can reasonable predict were they will land. Your also forced to use them based on range meaning that you can tell what will be hit based on were the thing is shooting from.

By your logic why would any artillery have flares?

Most of those call-ins are extremely expensive and do nothing near what a actual on-map unit would do.
Most soviet doctrines provide off-map as well, but they still use the katyusha.

And why would hang-time be any different then the delay of hearing the off-map.

Katuysha - You hear katyusha you start moving
Major Arty - You hear artillery firing you start moving

If anything the the time between the current artillery is much shorter then the delay before a major artillery strike. Are you seriously suggesting you have time to dodge the fire of other rocket arty in the split second you see the rocket and before it hits?

The reason other artillery has flares is because they can wipe your entire army in the blink of an eye. Majors artillery isn't even as strong as a single priest barrage.

Pls, not another 'no flare' artillery ability. I already have pure hate for the UKF concentrated barrage, which comes down immediately without any warning since it has no flare smoke.

Most of those call-ins are extremely expensive and do nothing near what a actual on-map unit would do.
Most soviet doctrines provide off-map as well, but they still use the katyusha.

Uh, Mech Artillery will almost kill an OKW HQ. Time on Target will do the same thing. On map artillery cannot do that much damage in nearly that amount of time. After testing it to take an OKW BG HQ down to 25% health like Mech did it took 3 Priest barrages on Average.

And why would hang-time be any different then the delay of hearing the off-map.

Katuysha - You hear katyusha you start moving
Major Arty - You hear artillery firing you start moving

Because the Katyusha has a set range and cannot shoot at anywere on the map? I mean it wouldn't be all that problematic, it would just make no consistent sense.

The reason other artillery has flares is because they can wipe your entire army in the blink of an eye. Majors artillery isn't even as strong as a single priest barrage.

All Artillery that lacks concrete warning or defined range should have flares. You can argue for buffing major artillery (I would like to see it buffed as well). But removing flares? Nah.

Just increase the amount of shells it fires.

Pls, not another 'no flare' artillery ability. I already have pure hate for the UKF concentrated barrage, which comes down immediately without any warning since it has no flare smoke.

but stuka dive bomb is ok.

Uh, Mech Artillery will almost kill an OKW HQ. Time on Target will do the same thing. On map artillery cannot do that much damage in nearly that amount of time. After testing it to take an OKW BG HQ down to 25% health like Mech did it took 3 Priest barrages on Average.

Yes exactly. They shoot flares that say "hey watch out I'm going to kill everything right her" and hit a huge but dodge-able blow. On maps have have a noticeable sound and then hit without warning, making them much more consistent tools.

Major arty doesn't hit hard, so why should it be a like what USF has plenty of, instead like the things they actually lack.

Because the Katyusha has a set range and cannot shoot at anywere on the map? I mean it wouldn't be all that problematic, it would just make no consistent sense.

Last time I checked the Majors range was nowhere near that of any of the rocket artillery.

All Artillery that lacks concrete warning or defined range should have flares. You can argue for buffing major artillery (I would like to see it buffed as well). But removing flares? Nah.

Just increase the amount of shells it fires.

Yay, more shells that are easily dodged.

The point is that the major's artillery should be an actual alternative to the on-map units they lack. Not just a weaker version of their doctrinal arties.

but stuka dive bomb is ok.

Which has a sound warning and you can dodge pretty easily if you have any kind of useful micro.

Arty without any kind of warning that comes down pretty much instantly is something totally different.

Which has a sound warning and you can dodge pretty easily if you have any kind of useful micro.

Arty without any kind of warning that comes down pretty much instantly is something totally different.

Off-map firing sound increased
Also since when does the major's arty come down instantly?

Even so it's not as if stats can't be changed to compensate.

I put a bit there. To be honest I think being able to pre-target the guns would be a good buff to start with. I'm tired of waiting for that second arty piece to do a complete 180 before firing. Perhaps I can get a better feel for the ability if it wasn't so highly erratic.

I agree Manual targeting would be a good step forward.

Most of those call-ins are extremely expensive and do nothing near what a actual on-map unit would do.
Most soviet doctrines provide off-map as well, but they still use the katyusha.

And why would hang-time be any different then the delay of hearing the off-map.

Katuysha - You hear katyusha you start moving
Major Arty - You hear artillery firing you start moving

If anything the the time between the current artillery is much shorter then the delay before a major artillery strike. Are you seriously suggesting you have time to dodge the fire of other rocket arty in the split second you see the rocket and before it hits?

The reason other artillery has flares is because they can wipe your entire army in the blink of an eye. Majors artillery isn't even as strong as a single priest barrage.

Audio-only arty is a great big "fuck you" to anyone with hearing problems trying to play this game. Unless or until there's some alternative warning for those folks, there should be less, not more of it.

Audio-only arty is a great big "fuck you" to anyone with hearing problems trying to play this game. Unless or until there's some alternative warning for those folks, there should be less, not more of it.

Isn't all artillery audio only? It's not like you can see pwherfers or katyushas firing through the fog of war until it hits you.

I just fail to see how a major running up and calling artillery on you without a flare, functionally different then a unit sitting all the way in the back in the fog of war firing with no warning.