a New RTS Coh-Like release

Wargame franchise absolutely shits on CoH 2.

Fantastic, what are you doing here? haven't you heard that people have different tastes and arguing about it makes no sense? I don't call your food Shit because you like the taste but I don't. I think your attitude is SHIT, perhaps next time don't write anything if you only want to insult different tastes.

Fantastic, what are you doing here? haven't you heard that people have different tastes and arguing about it makes no sense? I don't call your food Shit because you like the taste but I don't. I think your attitude is SHIT, perhaps next time don't write anything if you only want to insult different tastes.

Grow a thicker skin and don't use strawman tactics I did not insult anyone. It's your attitude that needs some open-mindness, like your non-argumentative contribution that adds nothing to the discussion besides dismissing someone else's statement as shit.

Moreover I'm not judging the superiority of Wargame over CoH 2 based on preference, such as game design and philosophies (Which are subjective), but on objective product and service quality.

Wargame is really well optimized.
Runs great, plays smooth, looks just as good, models are very accurate and detailed. I'd argue it looks better on a larger scale.
Considering that in even 1v1 Wargame maps, a single sector is roughly the size of a Coh2 4v4 map and a map consist of a minimum of 6 sectors, the scale is impressive.
You have a lot more fighting going on and the frame drop is not halved to 25 fps on larger battles, I can keep 60. Which is surprising when you can play 10 v 10.
Only department where CoH 2 has an edge is animations. It would not make sense for motion capture in Wargame as you are playing at a battalion/Brigade level, you rarely zoom in close enough to see individual soldiers vaulting and reloading. It would be a waste of finite computing power.

Wargame has far fewer bugs, and they get squashed rapidly. Crashes to desktop are a rarity. The Iriszoom engine is just stable and superior to Relics' Essence Engine, there's no contest there.

Want to talk balance, I know it's subjective, yet it's noteworthy that Eugen Systems does a far better job considering there are over 2000 air, land and sea units to balance.

Cherry on the top. Eugen is much more open and talkative in their official forums they actually engage with their community (their CM has over 13 000 posts). I'm a sucker for decent hands-on approach and they are not afraid to either say No or Yes to certain player request or clarifying some stats instead of cowering behind the NDA shield.
Eugen is also supporting Wargame Red Dragon with an upcoming free DLC pack accompanied by a balance patch (All of Eugen's DLCs are FREE). So new maps and rebalanced old ones despite having just launched AoA.

Lastly I like the community driven Marshall Program they set up.

To conclude.
Wargame is a better product and service, not a better game per say.
However the Wargame is much harder and unforgiving, the micro/macro is more taxing as positioning and recon are key, because it's far more realistic, thus it's truly a niche game. That's why I have more hours on CoH 2 as it's more arcady & casual.
Well also because I am much much better at CoH 2, while on the other side I'm a noob facing veteran players as I picked Wargame Franchise Pack only last summer sale (Wargame's playerbase is also smaller than CoH2).

Seeing the abysmal state of CoH 2 since Brits launched I'm just giving in to reason.
Why keep such a masochistic relationship with Coh2's shitty service?!
At Least I'm not fighting against the controls, bugs and the engine itself on top of RNG galore on Wargame or SC2!

Sorry I'm hurting blind CoH 2 fanboys but the game is not getting ANY BETTER, quite the CONTRARY. CoH 2 is a game with amazing potential, poorly executed and it did not deliver, same goes for AoA. You can't build an excellent game on a shaky foundation, that flimsy foundation is CoH2's engine itself.

snip

Good points. Liking one type of gameplay over the other is preference, but Eugen did a better job. I've never crashed, you don't need a $200 video card to get smooth performance, more interaction, no p2w, and a wider range of tactics. The only thing I can knock Wargame for is how some of the mechanics aren't very well explained and require outside research (particularly the absence of FoW making the line of sight + detection very confusing at first).

Grow a thicker skin and don't use strawman tactics I did not insult anyone. It's your attitude that needs some open-mindness, like your non-argumentative contribution that adds nothing to the discussion besides dismissing someone else's statement as shit.

Moreover I'm not judging the superiority of Wargame over CoH 2 based on preference, such as game design and philosophies (Which are subjective), but on objective product and service quality.

Wargame is really well optimized.
Runs great, plays smooth, looks just as good, models are very accurate and detailed. I'd argue it looks better on a larger scale.
Considering that in even 1v1 Wargame maps, a single sector is roughly the size of a Coh2 4v4 map and a map consist of a minimum of 4 sectors, the scale is impressive.
You have a lot more fighting going on and the frame drop is not halved to 25 fps on larger battles, I can keep 60. Which is surprising when you can play 10 v 10.
Only department where CoH 2 has an edge is animations. It would not make sense for motion capture in Wargame as you are playing at a battalion/Brigade level, you rarely zoom in close enough to see individual soldiers vaulting and reloading. It would be a waste of finite computing power.

Wargame has far fewer bugs, and they get squashed rapidly. Crashes to desktop are a rarity. The Iriszoom engine is just stable and superior to Relics' Essence Engine, there's no contest there.

Want to talk balance, I know it's subjective, yet it's noteworthy that Eugen Systems does a far better job considering there are over 2000 air, land and sea units to balance.

Cherry on the top. Eugen is much more open and talkative in their official forums they actually engage with their community (their CM has over 13 000 posts). I'm a sucker for decent hands-on approach and they are not afraid to either say No or Yes to certain player request or clarifying some stats instead of cowering behind the NDA shield.
Eugen is also supporting Wargame Red Dragon with an upcoming free DLC pack accompanied by a balance patch (All of Eugen's DLC is FREE). So new maps and rebalanced old ones despite having just launched AoA.

Lastly I like the community driven Marshall Program they set up.

To conclude.
Wargame is a better product and service, not a better game per say.
However the Wargame is much harder and unforgiving, the micro/macro is more taxing as positioning and recon are key, because it's far more realistic, thus it's truly a niche game. That's why I have more hours on CoH 2 as it's more arcady & casual.
Well also because I am much much better at CoH 2, while on the other side I'm a noob facing veteran players as I picked Wargame Franchise Pack only last summer sale (Wargame's playerbase is also smaller than CoH2).

Seeing the abysmal state of CoH 2 since Brits launched I'm just giving in to reason.
Why keep such a masochistic relationship with Coh2's shitty service?!
At Least I'm not fighting against the controls, bugs and the engine itself on top of RNG galore on Wargame or SC2!

Sorry I'm hurting blind CoH 2 fanboys but the game is not getting ANY BETTER, quite the CONTRARY. CoH 2 is a game with amazing potential, poorly executed and it did not deliver, same goes for AoA. You can't build an excellent game on a shaky foundation, that flimsy foundation is CoH2's engine itself.

Hear hear man but the main weakpoint for WG is small playerbase = no chance for folks in Asia, if you want to play there's no one to connect to and game lag. Everything else WG beats COH2. Heck, even HW remake runs far more stable than COH2.

Good points. Liking one type of gameplay over the other is preference, but Eugen did a better job. I've never crashed, you don't need a $200 video card to get smooth performance, more interaction, no p2w, and a wider range of tactics. The only thing I can knock Wargame for is how some of the mechanics aren't very well explained and require outside research (particularly the absence of FoW making the line of sight + detection very confusing at first).

Hear hear man but the main weakpoint for WG is small playerbase = no chance for folks in Asia, if you want to play there's no one to connect to and game lag. Everything else WG beats COH2. Heck, even HW remake runs far more stable than COH2.

Agreed.
Main weaknesses of the Wargame franchise are:
Lack of a decent tutorial.
In EE the first campaign was somewhat a tutorial but still very hard for a newcomer.
ALB got an okay stand-alone tutorial with replayable scenarios to understand the mechanics.
Red Dragon did not even bother, the tutorial is an in-game text encyclopaedia you have to read.
At least the community is quite helpful, but you need to do homework to learn this game.

Seems Eugen thinks only veterans play Wargame anyway so they don't waste time & ressources on re-doing a tutorial for every new release.
And they're French, we have this "Stop complaining and get good, training wheels are for sissies" attitude. You should hear American students on an exchange at my Uni squealing as they can't get A and B+ because in France a 14 (C) out of 20 is exceptional. Teachers are like, nop, not good enough try harder (soft whiplash style). Huh, guess we have something in common with the Japanese if we take Dark Souls and Megaman as a reference then lol.

I suspect Act of Aggression also suffers from poorly explained game mechanics and resource system from what I've heard, never played nor cared about that game as it is not my style.

Small Playerbase:
Not really much Eugen can do besides asking their publisher to redo a massive marketing campaign, which is unrealistic.
Wargame is a niche game for bona fide armchair generals, with a much higher learning curve and skillcap. Plus you better learn those real NATO designations, become an armament buff to make some sense of each nation's arsenal and apply some real standard tactics and combined arms (Spamming a single type of unit is a no-no). So yeah, it's gonna discourage the average gamer.

Also, the playerbase is split between the 3 titles, making it look smaller than it actually is once you sum them all up. That's one of the inconvenient of stand-alone releases.

There's a ranked automatch but no one seems to use it, besides the odd 24/7 player that wrecks you.
So at any given time there's like 4-5 people queuing and it's like a loop where a noob is constantly facing Devm. Not very fun. Really bugs me out why the majority players don't use it.
People stick to lobbies and the issue is that all the 10 v 10 servers are in Europe, Russia or USA (Where 90% of the playerbase lives). So Asians need to connect to those servers or P2P to Europe/USA. Yeah sadly the ping must be horrible. Only solutions I see for you guys is for a dozen of die-hard Wargame fans putting in some cash on hosting a server in a central Asian location with good internet infrastructure like Singapore or Hong Kong.

And lastly, a good portion of the playerbase loves to sit and troll 24/7 on the chat, dubbed the "Warchat", don't listen to them these people are RETARDED. But sometimes they do provide good laughs.
Now that I think of it, it's a brilliant want to channel the toxic forum fanboys and trolls that don't even play the game into a fenced cesspool so they don't annoy the people actually playing the game.
Just imagine Katitof and Alexzandvar, the SS fanboys, and Sovjet Fanboys and Vetlolcake clones sitting there bickering all day in a chat box you can disable instead of spamming the forums.

Your logic is flawed at one point though : albeit "superior" as you claim; I just don't like how the game plays. Big flaw...

Your logic is flawed at one point though : albeit "superior" as you claim; I just don't like how the game plays. Big flaw...

That's your preference.
But if you like games that run like crap and have serious quality issues, by all means go ahead.
Just don't argue with me that a shitty Lada with bursted tyres and an overheating engine is superior to a well maintained BMW because you find the Lada cute and it's issues charming.

That's your preference.
But if you like games that run like crap and have serious quality issues, by all means go ahead.
Just don't argue with me that a shitty Lada with bursted tyres and an overheating engine is superior to a well maintained BMW.

too bad it's preferences of the customer that dictate the market. Your BMW can be as good as it wants, when everyone prefers to drive a Lada, you're still fucked

Another CnC like game. Nothing similar with CoH

too bad it's preferences of the customer that dictate the market. Your BMW can be as good as it wants, when everyone prefers to drive a Lada, you're still fucked

Too bad the customer actually prefers quality but sometimes can't afford it, so they aim for the BMW, despite driving a Lada (Seriously no one "wants" to drive a Lada).
Too bad the BMW customer has more money and will pay more for the car, so the Lada does not dictate the market. Only a butthurt Lada driver that can't afford a BMW will argue the Lada is superior.

Ever wondered why the luxury business is so profitable with such a small consumer base, a consumer base they need to nurture with quality goods otherwise they jump ships.

Objectively speaking, a German high-end car is better than a cheap Soviet car.

In competitive gaming what dictates the market are bug free, well optimized games that can run silky smooth on most systems. Customers don't enjoy hassle.

In this case, the rationale basis on which I'm rating games is not how good they look, but how well they perform. And Wargame runs and perform better than CoH 2, period. The same goes for any other competitive game that runs well and bug-free such a SC2 and the MOBAs.

It may run as good and bug free as it wants, if the gameplay isn't appealing to people, they won't play it...

It may run as good and bug free as it wants, if the gameplay isn't appealing to people, they won't play it...

And who said the game-play is not appealing?! The franchise was a sleeper hit and has been so profitable they made 2 more titles (They're more like expansions).

Coh2 + DLC sale figures must not be that far from Wargame franchise sale figures.

You fanboys need to grow a thicker skin putting words in my mouth like I said Wargame is a better game, when I've said again and again it's a better product and service. Especially when the Iriszoom engine has been steadily improving visually and performance wise with each new title (Red Dragon runs and looks better than EE), while CoH2's performance gets worse without looking any better with each new DLC faction.

Some Figures for the Wargame franchise Can't quickly find any on CoH 2.

P.S : By seeing those figures, AoA flopped.

And who said the game-play is not appealing?! The franchise was a sleeper hit and has been so profitable they made 2 more titles (They're more like expansions).

Coh2 + DLC sale figures must not be that far from Wargame franchise sale figures.

You fanboys need to grow a thicker skin putting words in my mouth like I said Wargame is a better game, when I've said again and again it's a better product and service. Especially when the Iriszoom engine has been steadily improving visually and performance wise with each new title (Red Dragon runs and looks better than EE), while CoH2's performance gets worse without looking any better with each new DLC faction.

Some Figures for the Wargame franchise Can't quickly find any on CoH 2.

P.S : By seeing those figures, AoA flopped.

I bought airland battle and red dragon and I simply don't like how those games feel/play. That's not so hard to understand. Even though you claim it to be a better game, it just doesn't appeal to me (and probably many other players) in the same way coh2 gameplay feels like.

I bought airland battle and red dragon and I simply don't like how those games feel/play. That's not so hard to understand. Even though you claim it to be a better game, it just doesn't appeal to me (and probably many other players) in the same way coh2 gameplay feels like.

You fanboys need to grow a thicker skin putting words in my mouth like I said Wargame is a better game, when I've said again and again it's a better product and service.

I did not say it's a better game as I've actually played CoH 2 more than Wargame and if not for the shit-on of issues it would be the more enjoyable experience for me. I'm not ranking Wargame on preference but on objective terms like product quality, is it that hard to understand?

I'll end the discussion here as it's not really one and I'm beating a dead horse. You're arguing semantics to stall out. Preference is irrelevant when judging performance.

No wonder Relic feels no pressure to fix CoH 2 with such indulgent staffers.

I did not say it's a better game as I've actually played CoH 2 more than Wargame and if not for the shit-on of issues it would be the more enjoyable experience for me. I'm not ranking Wargame on preference but on objective terms like product quality, is it that hard to understand?

I'll end the discussion here as it's not really one and I'm beating a dead horse. You're arguing semantics to stall out. Preference is irrelevant when judging performance.

No wonder Relic feels no pressure to fix CoH 2 with such indulgent staffers.

Sorry to dissapoint

http://steamcharts.com/app/231430

http://steamcharts.com/app/251060

http://steamcharts.com/app/318020


LOL

The Wargame series is infinitely better than Act of Aggression, and Company of Heroes 2 is infinitely better than the Wargame Series. Except maybe the first one in which CoH 2 is just better.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKlnjwzT1IruAZFb0EA-5pQ

Well this just proves people are indeed stupid and love the oppression of shitty bugs, glitches and bad optimization while being milked to death with DLC.

Keep shilling evangelists. You just all went full retard fanboy level and can't even admit CoH 2 has serious product quality issues.

It's a diamond in the rough no one bothers to polish.

But hey I'm arguing with forum warriors that barely play the game and are not very skilled at it anyways...

The Wargame series is infinitely better than Act of Aggression, and Company of Heroes 2 is infinitely better than the Wargame Series. Except maybe the first one in which CoH 2 is just better.

Of course this is subjective as most things are:

I find WarGame to run better but I don't care CoH 2 is more satisfying
I find CoH 2 to be unbalanced but I don't care because so is every Wargame after EE.
I find CoH 2's gameplay slightly finkicky, but I don't care because Wargame puts me to sleep because everyone camps forests.

I find Act of Aggression dull and has a lower overall quality and attention to detail when compared to CoH 2. Hell just compare the voice acting. You'd find better voice actors in a community theatre, how Eugen couldn't get decent fork'n voice actors for a French faction WHEN THEY'RE FRENCH I HAVE NO IDEA.
Seriously do French people hate speaking English so much they refused to do the accents for this games "EU/UN" faction.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKlnjwzT1IruAZFb0EA-5pQ

snip

It's pretty hard for you to accept that people like a game better even though it's full of "shitty bugs, glitches and bad optimization while being milked to death with DLC" isn't it?