Base armor to counter Panther

Hi all. I am new here. I have played the game in PvE for a very long while and have started playing PvP. For Soviet, whats the best for countering Panther?

YTD I was in a 4v4 match (i like 3v3, 4v4) and was using 1 IS2, 1 KV8 and 2 SU76 to destroy a OKW Flak HQ. Then I countered a Vet 2 Panther and a Tiger Ace. Turn out all my armors were all destroyed and I could only damage the 2 tanks very badly but did not kill them.

It was definitely my micro esp since I put my IS 2 too front while the SU76 stuck 2 tgt. Then the Panther just breakthrough all three of them and my tanks got attacked from left and right. I also did not give sufficient infantry support.

I thought that 2 Su76 and 1 IS2 can take out any enemy vehicle already. I guess for ACE players its yes but for a new PvP player like me probably not. IS2 turret turning was too slow that it cannot shoot at Panther at all (got playing around). My SU76 could shoot but yet at fail to penetrate a few times. (I think I panic and it was even worse)

For Soviet, assuming that the armors are supported by infantry, what do you guys use to counter Panther? I dont find Tiger ace such a problem (its a bit too strong though esp since it requires no fuel at all) but a fast and well managed Panther can play me around.

I usually prefer either Advance Warfare (produce maybe 1 - 2 SU76 then go for T34-85) or the KV8/ IS2 one (skipping T4). Are SU76s good enough? Is IS2 good to handle Panther? Must Soviet go for T4 in 4v4 games?

I think defensive wise its not such a big problem as I can plant mines and place AT guns.

A Commander with Marked target + SU85s.

2 SU76s are more than enough to counter a panther with sufficient micro, when you use them as kiting tools (meaning keep them at max range, so that panther can't close in, but you can continuously fire at the panther). Especially when you have an IS2 to soak up the damage, you might lose the IS2, but you should be able to take out at least the panther if you focus fire on one target.
When attacking an OKW base, try to just use your SU76s at a distance attacking ground where the HQ is, or spotting with infantry.

A Commander with Marked target + SU85s.

Thanks! But will SU 85s face the same issue? - somehow they are even slower than SU 76. Of course placing them at different locations is the key. I am also thinking if I can skip T4 in this latest patch and rely on SU76 to be the key tank destroyer. I really love SU 76 and believe that they can well handle ostheer/ okay PIV and Stugs very well.

2 SU76s are more than enough to counter a panther with sufficient micro, when you use them as kiting tools (meaning keep them at max range, so that panther can't close in, but you can continuously fire at the panther). Especially when you have an IS2 to soak up the damage, you might lose the IS2, but you should be able to take out at least the panther if you focus fire on one target.
When attacking an OKW base, try to just use your SU76s at a distance attacking ground where the HQ is, or spotting with infantry.

Thanks. But is that IS 2 a must? Or is that any other good ones like T34-85 that can stay at the frontline soaking up the damage while SU76s keep shooting. YTD I did focus fire on the Panther - the major mistake was that I put the 2 SU76s together so they got pass by the Panther at the same time and cannot react.

Just wondering if T34-85 will actually do a better job as main armor, instead of relying on a single IS2 supported by SU76s. I like ISU 152 but I think for my current PvP skills and experience it will get destroyed very quickly.

After the first match I played 4v4 as OKW in the same map. Won with ease - the Panther + Volks blob + support gun can handle almost all situation... SIGH

Since you said that you like Advanced Warfare...
Going straight for T4 and making 2 T34/85s and 2 Su85s counters pretty much all the armor, T34/85s to flank and block the movement of the opposing tanks while the Su85s deal all the dmg

Since you said that you like Advanced Warfare...
Going straight for T4 and making 2 T34/85s and 2 Su85s counters pretty much all the armor, T34/85s to flank and block the movement of the opposing tanks while the Su85s deal all the dmg

Thanks! Will try this in the next play. But if it is a heavy T4 route, will it mean that I cannot invest too much on T3? Highly likely it will be conscripts> T2 (Maxim and Zis) >T3 (nothing)> T4 (T34-85 + SU85)?

BTW in this new patch, does it make sense to go for both T1 (for penals) + T2? I always want to give sniper a try but I just prefer having squads instead of mananging a single (or 2) snipers.

Thanks! Will try this in the next play. But if it is a heavy T4 route, will it mean that I cannot invest too much on T3? Highly likely it will be conscripts> T2 (Maxim and Zis) >T3 (nothing)> T4 (T34-85 + SU85)

It's ok to make a vehicle or two from T3 but investing in it too much will make your t4 and first 34/85 come a little too late, but the build for me (I'm a off meta player) goes something like this: 5 cons (somethimes 6 depending on the map and gamemode) -> t2 -> 1-2 atguns -> t3 Su76 or T70 depending IF i need one of them -> T4 -> T34/85 -> 2x Su85s -> T34/85

This build order is a hard one to pull off since it bleeds a shit ton of manpower

Support your tank destroyers with mines and conscripts. You will (eventually) notice, that the moment you move your conscripts towards a tank, the tank starts moving backwards, and there is a reason for that: a tank with a destroyed engine is a dead tank.

It's ok to make a vehicle or two from T3 but investing in it too much will make your t4 and first 34/85 come a little too late, but the build for me (I'm a off meta player) goes something like this: 5 cons (somethimes 6 depending on the map and gamemode) -> t2 -> 1-2 atguns -> t3 Su76 or T70 depending IF i need one of them -> T4 -> T34/85 -> 2x Su85s -> T34/85

This build order is a hard one to pull off since it bleeds a shit ton of manpower

Thanks! For T3 I have a question, is T70 really needed if I have plenty of conscripts and Maxims to do AI? I know that T70 is a decent AI light tank but it is really too fragile. And its countered so badly by Ostheer T3/ Shrecks/ Puma/ Pak 40. What makes you go for a T70 instead of a M5 Quad if you are looking for AI? Esp if I reply on cons to do recon.

And is it a good idea to totally depend on Penals instead of Cons? The cost is similar, while Penals AI is way better. But they dont have AT nades.

Support your tank destroyers with mines and conscripts. You will (eventually) notice, that the moment you move your conscripts towards a tank, the tank starts moving backwards, and there is a reason for that: a tank with a destroyed engine is a dead tank.

Thanks. Ya I know that because even PvE comps like to throw AT nades. How many cons do you usually use to support armor advance? I think my mistake was that the infantry and the armors were seperated. Cons reached the frontline too early and need to retreat before my armors can reach. Then when my armors have reached my cons were gone alr.

How do you use mines and AT guns to attack? I usually use mines and AT guns for defensive purpose only.

su-76s, at nades, zis

you can tech to su85s but its an overkill imo.

su-76s, at nades, zis

you can tech to su85s but its an overkill imo.

Thanks. So to you it is perfectly fine to go with only SU76s with Zis and nades, without IS 2 and SU85s and T-34-85 at all?

I usually prefer either Advance Warfare (produce maybe 1 - 2 SU76 then go for T34-85) or the KV8/ IS2 one (skipping T4). Are SU76s good enough? Is IS2 good to handle Panther? Must Soviet go for T4 in 4v4 games?

In 4v4 there is enough fuel and the game lasts long enough that you shouldn't spend your popcap on other the very best you can get.

SU-85s hit harder and from further away and with focus sight further away can be a lot.


If you are having trouble I suggest Guards Motor:

Guards for Button and Light AT support

Mark Target not only helps destroy stuff, but can force a unit to retreat earlier than it would otherwise do so

T34/85

playing PvP. For Soviet, whats the best for countering Panther?

I'm relatively new too, and only an average player, so I can only tell you how I deal. If you look the penetration and HP stats, you will see that the Panther is only strong to frontal hits.

I'm an advocate of X2 T-34/76 or an AT gun and one T-34/76 are better than one Su-85. The real advantage of the Su-85 is its range, but requires a spotter to take advantage of that. Its frontal armour is weak, and fuel wise, it is expensive relative to a T-34/76 but dies just as easily and has all the disadvantages of a casemate mounted AT gun. Two shots on target from a T-34 is better than an Su-85 getting in one or none as it traverses its gun if your opponent's micro is superior. Use the T-34/76's advantages of speed and turret to flank and fire. Ram with one if needs be and kill with the other, situational of course.

By the time OKW can get out a Panther, you should easily be at mutliple T-34/76 capability, and importantly, it's non-doctrinal. If you only have one, then use an AT gun supported by inf to prevent its overrun, preferably on the flank if you can lure the Panther with your T-34/76. Keep the T-34 constantly moving to minimise the Panther's hit accuracy. If no fuel, multiple spaced AT guns deployed in depth and spaced pack a huge punch, but of course, they must be protected by infantry. Angled so as no matter where the Panther approaches, preferably at least one has a flanking shot.

Much as masters of micro are fond of them, personally I don't like Su-76s because the require intense micro and are super fragile for hardly less fuel cost than a T-34. They are just a mounted AT gun and should be used as such. If I find myself stuck in that tier unable to access a T-34, I prefer supported AT guns to Su-76s.

Thanks. Ya I know that because even PvE comps like to throw AT nades. How many cons do you usually use to support armor advance? I think my mistake was that the infantry and the armors were seperated. Cons reached the frontline too early and need to retreat before my armors can reach. Then when my armors have reached my cons were gone alr.

How do you use mines and AT guns to attack? I usually use mines and AT guns for defensive purpose only.

Usually 2 cons, one for each side of the tank (or AT gun), but the more the merrier. Never send the tank alone.

I'm relatively new too, and only an average player, so I can only tell you how I deal. If you look the penetration and HP stats, you will see that the Panther is only strong to frontal hits.

I'm an advocate of X2 T-34/76 or an AT gun and one T-34/76 are better than one Su-85. The real advantage of the Su-85 is its range, but requires a spotter to take advantage of that.

Unless it has been removed and I didn't notice, SU-85s have the 'Focus Fire" ability that extends their cone of vision forward but narrows it and cuts their mobility.


Apart from that though they pretty much always should have something in front of them anyway

I'm an advocate of X2 T-34/76 or an AT gun and one T-34/76 are better than one Su-85. The real advantage of the Su-85 is its range, but requires a spotter to take advantage of that. Its frontal armour is weak, and fuel wise, it is expensive relative to a T-34/76 but dies just as easily and has all the disadvantages of a casemate mounted AT gun. Two shots on target from a T-34 is better than an Su-85 getting in one or none as it traverses its gun if your opponent's micro is superior. Use the T-34/76's advantages of speed and turret to flank and fire. Ram with one if needs be and kill with the other, situational of course.

T34/76s suck and are only half decent as ramming tools and inf crushing, the Su85 can deal constant damage with high range and RoF, and as it vets up it will become a mini Elefant and be able to kill a panther alone. The thing why people only use the T34/76 to fight Lights and other mediums (Not a panther) is that their penetration is absolute shait just as their armor. Mobility on the other hand is ok, anti inf is ok but against "real" tanks the T34/76 is absolute shit

if you a new player - su 85 have awesome dps(very fast firing) and easy range advantage. with vet it fire faster (shot ever 2 sec.) and in big game you can have early su 85 and ot can get vets on pz4 and ostwinds. When panter comes its can deal with it in 15 sec.

Try to use guards motor.You can use guards to button vehicle while using at guns to snipe from afar.