OCF Prize Pool

Hi all. So have decided to finally put this thread up after quite a bit of discussion on Twitch over the last few weeks about how the OCF Prize pool is being split up.

This isn't meant to be a flaming thread, and in order to keep this from getting locked i would like to ask everyone to keep it a civil as possible.

Can anyone explain to us in detail how the prize pool will be shared out?

I know that my doubts over the prize pool have personally stopped me from contributing - many others share my apprehension. In the interests of transparency, and coh2 itself, I think it would help for the community to be in the loop a little more. Who knows, maybe we could reach 10k and have Hans eat some Soap as well

50% of your contribution will go directly to the Prize Pool and 50% will go to COH2.ORG

The prize pool is actually only half of the donations, the whole donation pool itself is $10,000 so far.

In terms of prizes however, it works out differently. On the stretch goals section you see the sum divided into amounts based on bracket position: http://www.coh2.org/crowdfunding/Progress

Half of the prize pool, goes to first place, just to clarify this, as the prize pool is still only half. So the winner gets a quarter of all donations.

The other half of the donations go the site and it's staff, with 50% of these (so a quarter of all donations) going to a certain which is not unfair considering the work he's put in. Then the remaining half of the non prize pool donations are split further amongst other admins for their contributions.

I hope I didn't screw up the wording and it helped.

You're pretty close, swift, but we have never publicized how coh2.org distributes its income. So when you say I get 50% of what coh2.org takes, you are just guessing. I've mentioned before on streams that coh2.org is owned by myself, Seb, and Marco. For this event, we will be compensating Janne252 as well. We were able to do a little compensation for TM.Dutchy, our lead artist, by paying his expenses in our trip to Munster to visit the tank museum.

The prize pool is actually only half of the donations, the whole donation pool itself is $10,000 so far.

In terms of prizes however, it works out differently. On the stretch goals section you see the sum divided into amounts based on bracket position: http://www.coh2.org/crowdfunding/Progress

Half of the prize pool, goes to first place, just to clarify this, as the prize pool is still only half. So the winner gets a quarter of all donations.

The other half of the donations go the site and it's staff, with 50% of these (so a quarter of all donations) going to a certain which is not unfair considering the work he's put in. Then the remaining half of the non prize pool donations are split further amongst other admins for their contributions.

I hope I didn't screw up the wording and it helped.

TL;DR half goes to prize pool, other half goes to the site, and it's staff, which are doing things for the site community

The prize pool is actually only half of the donations, the whole donation pool itself is $10,000 so far.

In terms of prizes however, it works out differently. On the stretch goals section you see the sum divided into amounts based on bracket position: http://www.coh2.org/crowdfunding/Progress

Half of the prize pool, goes to first place, just to clarify this, as the prize pool is still only half. So the winner gets a quarter of all donations.

The other half of the donations go the site and it's staff, with 50% of these (so a quarter of all donations) going to a certain which is not unfair considering the work he's put in. Then the remaining half of the non prize pool donations are split further amongst other admins for their contributions.

I hope I didn't screw up the wording and it helped.

Thanks Swift & Ami for explaining it in more detail.

The prize pool is actually only half of the donations, the whole donation pool itself is $10,000 so far.

In terms of prizes however, it works out differently. On the stretch goals section you see the sum divided into amounts based on bracket position: http://www.coh2.org/crowdfunding/Progress

Half of the prize pool, goes to first place, just to clarify this, as the prize pool is still only half. So the winner gets a quarter of all donations.

The other half of the donations go the site and it's staff, with 50% of these (so a quarter of all donations) going to a certain which is not unfair considering the work he's put in. Then the remaining half of the non prize pool donations are split further amongst other admins for their contributions.

I hope I didn't screw up the wording and it helped.

Ok, so forgive me if my numbers are wrong, but it goes something like this:

~$5000 to be split among winners (according to http://www.coh2.org/crowdfunding/Progress )

~$1500 Goes to "site and staff" - This is what I'm confused about. How much goes to who? How much will go to the coh2.org maintenance and how much to individual staff members? Will all staff members who helped organise OCF be receiving some of the pool?

~$1500 goes to Ami.

~$1500 to be "split among admins" Does this mean forums admins only, or all Staff members who helped with OCF?

Forgive me, the wording is a little confusing On that note, and most importantly, who is going to be providing for Barton's lifetime treatment for his Diarrhea and Erectile dysfunction?

I also remember some vague mention that Relic chipped in to the prize pool. Is this correct?

Yeah I was going by what I heard on streams, I don't know any solid values concerning admins.

Yeah I was going by what I heard on streams, I don't know any solid values concerning admins.

Ahh ok.

This was kind of why I created this thread. To eliminate the confusion and get some solid info on how it's actually being divided up.

Are there other members of the staff that are compensated for their works besides the ones you listed? Because $5K is a lot to take in for the site given most of us dont know the expenses you guys incur. Maybe if the transactions were more transparent it would alleviate the fears of people.

I think its only right given it comes from all the people that donated, including myself.

Are there other members of the staff that are compensated for their works besides the ones you listed? Because $5K is a lot to take in for the site given most of us dont know the expenses you guys incur. Maybe if the transactions were more transparent it would alleviate the fears of people.

When split between a few people its not a huge amount of money for the hours of work put in for the last couple of years and a bit of comeback for the efforts inspires people to put more in (for free) which can only help the coh2 community.

I suppose had I contributed significantly I would have more interest but at the moment I think I probably bought the coh2.org team half a beer to share between them.

When I contributed to OCF I knowingly knew some of the money would be going to the ones whom run the event. IM all about supporting the community members that host events and stream the game itself. So imo im not sure why so many of the people are concerned about where the money goes, when their the ones whom didn't contribute in the first place, I know I sound a little salty there but it irks me when people are talking shit how this person or that person is taking the money. You make it sound like they are stealing or something, remember the people willingly contributed. Im done, GL in tourney and hf to all whom participates tomorrow!

existant420

These are just my thoughts, Ami. If CoH2.org publishes its income, expenses and hours then the people on the fence may jump off and come to help. Because they would know, exactly, where their money is going, and of the hours spent working on stuff for the community. Perhaps, this could be done in a post. Un or regularly, with a story thrown in. About something worth sharing from behind the scenes of this site. An experience, maybe, a staffer has had. The effect may be that we, the public, feel closer to the staffers, and the site. Which may mean that some of us will step up and help when needed. More often than before.

A thing about telling the hours. Put it into perspective. Give people some sense of what the hours are worth. Compared to things, a contract payment, for example. Or a job and its hours. This perspective will help those on the fence make a decision easier. Like: "Oh... I didn't know those hours were worth that much. Hmm. Now, it seems fair how the money is split."

But maybe the world is not so, Ami. Make of my thoughts as you wish, and good day!

You're pretty close, swift, but we have never publicized how coh2.org distributes its income. So when you say I get 50% of what coh2.org takes, you are just guessing. I've mentioned before on streams that coh2.org is owned by myself, Seb, and Marco. For this event, we will be compensating Janne252 as well. We were able to do a little compensation for TM.Dutchy, our lead artist, by paying his expenses in our trip to Munster to visit the tank museum.

I work on this so many hours that I don't have time to count my hours. It sounds like an exaggeration, but it's not. If you think we should count hours and then publish those to the community (say what? who does that?), then please come on staff to be our accountant. Maybe you could help us.

You know, we've been working on coh2.org for almost 3 years now. We didn't start counting hours at the beginning because it was pretty pointless to do so. Would you want to know that you made .05 cents an hour for the months of work that you did? We frankly didn't want to know.

If we become more successful, we will attempt to improve our book-keeping.

I don't think it needs to go to those lengths Ami. That's not what myself and others are really after. It would just be nice if there was a little more transparency around OCF. That's all we're asking for.

I personally am under no illusion about the amount of time you, and other staff spend keeping .org running. Don't take this as me - or others - saying that you don't do enough. We all you know you and other staff members do a lot of work behind the scenes, and for this we are very appreciative. Running a site like this isn't easy, especially with all the drama.

Overall I think OCF has been a fantastic thing for this (dying) community. It had been really refreshing to see the community chip in so much. Not just with donations but with all the volunteering behind the scenes (ie the staff members that haven't been mentioned in this thread).

I think OCF could have reached an even higher donation pool if some of these questions re prize pool divvying had been answered early on. It's not so much the amounts that are of concern as the lack of solid information in this regard.

Again, don't take this as a personal shot. I have nothing but admiration for everyone involved with OCF. Both donators and staff.

To all those saying that those who haven't yet donated (like myself) don't deserve to have an opinion - that's fair enough. That's your opinion. But not everyone is in a financial position to be able to donate and not everyone is comfortable with the lack of reliable information in regards to prize pool. Even thought we might not have donated we are members of this community and I think we have a right to voice our opinions and concerns.

My hope was that this thread could perhaps alleviate some of the confusion and lead to more donations. This seems to be a very touchy issue for quite a few people. I've been overwhelmed with personal attacks since I started this thread. Pretty disappointing really.

It's not touchy for me at all. I think I'm about as transparent as it gets.

It's not touchy for me at all. I think I'm about as transparent as it gets.

Not so much you as people on twitch lol.

Would you be able to provide a % breakdown of what amounts are going where?

Appreciate you taking time out of the OCF shenanigans to post here by the way

Did Relic actually contribute to the prize pool? or was that just a rumour?

No justification needed, I think

It would be helpful if you kept the questions to a minimum on tourney days, guys. Ami has enough on his plate right now. You can trust me on that.

Ami has been transparent - he laid it all out in the first cast he ever did for OCF. I know, bcs I was moderating on the cast.. I also know I have tried to answer some of these questions before.

So, to answer your questions, I do not get paid anything for my involvement and nor do the Staff generally.

I have not asked for a breakdown of how the money is applied in COH2.ORG, because it does not worry me. If this event keeps Ami going and making shows, that's fine by me. I have seen the effort he has put in for OCF from the start, and it is a fulltime job, with lots of stress. If the Coders get an honorarium for their magnificent efforts and time applied, that is also fine by me.

TO precis what Ami said on his first cast, if you look at the DOTA prizepool which runs into millions, they split the money 75% to the organiser i.e. the developer, and the other 25% goes in prizes. Our spit is 50/50.

Organising tournaments takes a whole lot of effort. Small, larger ones, it does not really matter cause it is a lot of work. I'll break it down for you very briefly;

• Concept
  You want the tournament to be original. 2v2, 1v1. Clans only? For which division or maybe for all? If it is for all skills, what seeding method are you going to use to make it more fair?
  
• Rules
  Looking at the state of the game - what is considered OP? What needs to be banned in order for everyone to have a fair match? Mirror matches allowed in the qualifiers? Best of 1 or 3?
  
• Artwork
  This is the ultimate time consumer. Logo's, twitch scenes, highlights, little things like paragraphe-dividers in your newspost, overlays, intro videos, and tons of artwork I am not even mentioning. Photoshop and Illustrator hours x 100000
  
• Videos
  Intro vids, background vids, VODs on YouTube, worldbuilder mapvideos, ..
  Sony Vegas x 100000
  
• Prizes
  The hunt for good prizes cause you want the players to fight for something. This can be a pain in the ass cause as organisor you are already putting so much work in a tourney where you gain absolutely nothing. And now people expect you to have money/hardware prizes? That's absurd, but the show must go on.
  
• Streaming
  As mentioned before artwork, setting up Obs (scenes, hotkeys, testing, scources,... ), buying proper mic and webcam, buying a good rig so you can stream HQ, ...
  
• Creating newspost
  Writing everything out in a well written post (which most of the players don't even read).
  
• Managing sign-ups and creating brackets + seeding
  Who's playing against who? Randomization, cointoss or the referee decides who plays against who?
  
• Tourney day
  No-shows, managing problems, timezone issues, people being late, people who has not read the rules or timetable,..
  
• Streaming live
  After setting it up, you have to cast all games. Its super time consuming.
  
• A lot more details I'm not even mentioning.
  

You should know that many of us work on all of these things said above for FREE. We put in effort after we have gone working for a whole day.

What I am trying to say is - apart from the site management itself (I do not have knowledge about that) - tournament organisation itself is a HUGE effort where you gain absolutely nothing as organizer. With both Rewind and One4One I have gained absolutely 0 money. And I believe ThightRope, Romeo, Ipkai and more also gained nothing. So it is normal that the admins of such a large community receive something after years and years of site management and organisation.
Is 50% too much? Well I leave that up to each individual. I don't think it's right to compare it to huge DOTA events though, as there is a lot more to be paid for and does not run on donations. But that said, Ami has always been transparend about 50% - 50%, so there's not much you can say about that.

Hopefully you have more of an image what it takes to make and hold tournaments.