About mortars and panthers

the panther is ok against the brits and the soviets

when facing USF the panther magicaly becomes a BEAST cause USF has NO OPTION to ENGAGE,not destroy it but ENGAGE IT

this is the biggest issue i see with the panther(other then the fact OKW can rush it at the same time as other medium tanks start appearing)

the only thing they should do to it is this

INCREASE the REAR armor SIZE of the tank while REDUCE THE FRONTAL armor SIZE,the panther had AWFUL side armor and doing this side shots will penetrate more often

DELAY OKW Panther,they got their medium tank so they dont need this fast panther so it must be delayed

INCREASE PENETRATION on the 57mm AT gun so it can have more then 60% penetration chance against it

INCREASE PENETRATION and DAMAGE of the Bazookas so they can deal with panthers and tank destroyers that the USF cant deal using tanks

do those changes and the Panthers problems against some allied factions and against USF will be removed and the unit will be perfect

i would also suggest that the extra armor it receives at VET2 should be removed and be replaced with reload reduction

Panther has such small DPS that Stug can stand ground and 1v1 Panther and win 50% of the time.

>Why can't my 80 fuel cheap as fuck t34 not be good as a 175 fuel panther?

Seriously? Moreover panther doesn't wipe squads out of nowhere, the pintle lmg decreases health of squads so you can always retreat without ever facing a wipe.

>Why is the enemy not letting me destroy his panther with my IS2, why does he escape!

Seriously?

Why can't be my mortar as lethal as the enemy one?

Because 4 vs 6 men squads. Moreover soviet mortar has more accuracy. Flare is in my opinion a better ability that precision strike and a true combined arms ability, just in the spirit of coh.

>Why can't my 80 fuel cheap as fuck t34 not be good as a 175 fuel panther?

Seriously? Moreover panther doesn't wipe squads out of nowhere, the pintle lmg decreases health of squads so you can always retreat without ever facing a wipe.

>Why is the enemy not letting me destroy his panther with my IS2, why does he escape!

Seriously?

Why can't be my mortar as lethal as the enemy one?

Because 4 vs 6 men squads. Moreover soviet mortar has more accuracy. Flare is in my opinion a better ability that precision strike and a true combined arms ability, just in the spirit of coh.

T34 isn't only cheap as fuck, it's also shitty as fuck. Even 2 T34 (160 fuel) won't take even half of Panther's HP. I just pointed that Panther can fight against everything and Soviets don't have any counterpart.

So you think it's normal for Axis to have non-doctrinal unit with speed of light vehicle, armor of heavy vehicle, at-gun of TD and MG which is ok against infantry? Smoke makes this fucker invincible.

And about mortars. You said what? Soviet mortar has more accuracy than GrW? You mean barrage I suppose. Germans never use barrage, GrW's autofire kills everything. With vet1 and counter-fire German mortars become even more deadly.

T34 isn't only cheap as fuck, it's also shitty as fuck. Even 2 T34 (160 fuel) won't take even half of Panther's HP. I just pointed that Panther can fight against everything and Soviets don't have any counterpart.

So you think it's normal for Axis to have non-doctrinal unit with speed of light vehicle, armor of heavy vehicle, at-gun of TD and MG which is ok against infantry? Smoke makes this fucker invincible.

2 T34 can kill a panther, flank it, attack his rear armor and you will win

Or like anyone else, pick doctrines, T34-85 with mark target will eat panther for breakfast

Panthers are supposed to take out tanks. You can read it even on the tooltip. It would make no sense if 2 t34 could take out a panther frontally. They have no problem when hitting the rear armour.
Yes it's normal for axis because they have to rely on panthers to deal with allies tanks that come in superior numbers.
The panther has a dedicated role. To make hit and run attacks on tanks. This is what it does. It has a low dps, means the reload time is long, so it's no a tank destroyer that sits behind your lines with 60 range doing a rapidfire.
You also see nobody complain that 3 puma won't take out a IS2 frontally, you won't to do that with even 3 P4s.

Units have dedicated roles that counter each other, learn to use them instead of whining that the unit you want to use for something that it is not supposed to do fails at doing it, for obvious reasons.

About mortars.

Sov:
Scatter Angle: 8
Distance Ratio: .1
Reload (Max & Min): 7.5 seconds

Ost:
Scatter Angle: 10
Distance Ratio: .08
Reload (Max & Min): 2.4 seconds (soon 4 seconds)

That means the soviet mortar is about ~20 % more accurate, even on autofire.

About mortars.

Sov:
Scatter Angle: 8
Distance Ratio: .1
Reload (Max & Min): 7.5 seconds

Ost:
Scatter Angle: 10
Distance Ratio: .08
Reload (Max & Min): 2.4 seconds (soon 4 seconds)

That means the soviet mortar is about ~20 % more accurate, even on autofire.

Ost mortair firing 3 times while sov fire once. So fairly.

Ost mortair firing 3 times while sov fire once. So fairly.

Ost mortar reload will be 4 sec soon

Ost mortar reload will be 4 sec soon

Ost mortair firing 2 times while sov fire once (soon). MP cost equal. So fairly.

Ost mortair firing 3 times while sov fire once. So fairly.

You forget that to actually fire a weapon, the crew will need to go through the following delays, so the difference is not so high : aim time + wind up + wind down + cooldown + reload

Ost mortair firing 2 times while sov fire once (soon). MP cost equal. So fairly.

Sov mortar does have 2 more entities, is 20% more accurate, and fight ( against wher ) 4 entities squad, why do you ignore those elements and just concentrate on fire rate ? Play mirror matches Wher vs Wher it its your definition of "balance"

You forget that to actually fire a weapon, the crew will need to go through the following delays, so the difference is not so high : aim time + wind up + wind down + cooldown + reload

+ This

Who the hell gets Panthers anymore with the release of Brits? They are the least optimal for killing high health tanks.

Yes, Panther MUST take out tanks but why the hell it has no any weak points? It's impossible to stop Panther without at-nades or mines and it can escape even with damaged engine because its speed and smoke.

>>Yes it's normal for axis because they have to rely on panthers to deal with allies tanks that come in superior numbers.

So against Soviets Axis have HUGE amount of AT-measures like paks (better than zis), schrecks (best hand-held AT-weapon in the whole game), stugs (>su76) and Pz4 (waaaay better than t34). An only thing that can be on pair with this nightmare is IS-2 but it's doctrinal. After this Germans can build Panthers which haven't any analogues in Soviet army. It looks like nail in coffin.

Yes, Panther MUST take out tanks but why the hell it has no any weak points? It's impossible to stop Panther without at-nades or mines and it can escape even with damaged engine because its speed and smoke.

>>Yes it's normal for axis because they have to rely on panthers to deal with allies tanks that come in superior numbers.

So against Soviets Axis have HUGE amount of AT-measures like paks (better than zis), schrecks (best hand-held AT-weapon in the whole game), stugs (>su76) and Pz4 (waaaay better than t34). An only thing that can be on pair with this nightmare is IS-2 but it's doctrinal. After this Germans can build Panthers which haven't any analogues in Soviet army. It looks like nail in coffin.

Why do you compare Stug and Su 76 ? and not Stug with Su 85 ? next time you will compare King tiger and M3 ?
Pz4 (waaaay better than t34) = 60 fuel difference, you can almost have 2 T34-76 for one P4.

Why not pick a T34-85, that for almost the same coast will crush P4 easily and will fight Panther with the help of mark target ?

"After this Germans can build Panthers which haven't any analogues in Soviet army. It looks like nail in coffin." = After what ? you know the price of going T4 tier + Tier 4 building + Panther cost ? you can have 2 T34 85 for the same price that will overkill that panther ( even worst with mark target, again )

Lets 1v1 and you show me how you will crush me with a panther ? should we ?

2 T34 can kill a panther, flank it, attack his rear armor and you will win

Or like anyone else, pick doctrines, T34-85 with mark target will eat panther for breakfast

nice joke there mate

tell me with what speed,penetration,damage and durability will they kill the panther???

with RAM? sorry mate you need 3 t34-76 medium tanks for that and even then thats not a cost effective way to take it out(your losing more then you are gaining)

the only "reliable" way to take it out as soviets is with a mine and 1 su-85

and thats soviets

british must pray they survive early and mid game in order to even think on building tanks that can engage it

and as americans(USF) your fucked cause all your AT units are useless against a Panther

Why do you compare Stug and Su 76 ? and not Stug with Su 85 ? next time you will compare King tiger and M3 ?
Pz4 (waaaay better than t34) = 60 fuel difference, you can almost have 2 T34-76 for one P4.

Why not pick a T34-85, that for almost the same coast will crush P4 easily and will fight Panther with the help of mark target ?

Why I need DOCTRINAL t34-85 to beat NON-DOCTRINAL Pz4 and Panther? Can you feel the difference? Don't you think that something definitely wrong in this situation?

Pz4 appears on battlefield way earlier than t34-76, lol. T34 is pretty weak against it. It's better build some SU76 or even SU85 to counter Pz4 than shitty T34-76.

Why I need DOCTRINAL t34-85 to beat NON-DOCTRINAL Pz4 and Panther? Can you feel the difference? Don't you think that something definitely wrong in this situation?

Pz4 appears on battlefield way earlier than t34-76, lol. T34 is pretty weak against it. It's better build some SU76 or even SU85 to counter Pz4 than shitty T34-76.

You dont "need", its just easier with T34-85, i always countered Pz4 and Panthers with Su-85, T-34, Su 76, Mines, At nades, Zis gun, i never had problem

If he has a Pz4 before your T34-76, its your own fault bro, i assure you

Post us your replays, and we can help, bitching about units, is just useless

At this point, this thread is pointless.

I'm bitching about Panther because it has no any weak spots like any other vehicle in game (don't count Brits, they're new and need to be balanced). This bastard is strong, fast (even faster than t34), has great armor and can deal with everything. Smoke and blitz make it even stronger. I'll post replay in 2-3 hours.

Who the hell gets Panthers anymore with the release of Brits? They are the least optimal for killing high health tanks.

USF and soviets weren't removed from the game you know.