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russian armor

17 pounder vs Pak43

9 Sep 2015, 13:17 PM
#1
avatar of l4hti

Posts: 476

I dont understand, what is the point of 17 pounder? It costs 70 fuel and like 320 manpower? (im too lazy to check :luvDerp:, while Pak43 costs only 500 manpower.

17 pounder
-Cant shoot through everything without special ability, which costs 90 munitions..
-Can spot for itself with flare
-Garrison bonus
-Brace :foreveralone:

Pak43
-Shoots through everything all the time
-Crew can be sniped
-Cheaper cost


Both of these guns are so easily countered, so what is the point of 17 pounder costing so much? Id like to see 17 pounder cost reduced a lot.
9 Sep 2015, 13:26 PM
#2
avatar of Coventrierer

Posts: 80

maybe cause you can easily repair the the 17 pdr (commander ability for expample), set in safety mode, can turn alot faster then the german one and did not takes as long as the PaK to shot after turning. My impression of this: 17 pdr >> PaK 43
9 Sep 2015, 13:26 PM
#3
avatar of Blalord

Posts: 742 | Subs: 1

You just showed us why 17 pounder is way more durable
9 Sep 2015, 13:26 PM
#4
avatar of Kobunite
Patrion 15

Posts: 615

Isn't the main benefit that it's non-doctrinal?

The PAK40 is locked into doctrines that preclude the use of heavy tanks (barring OKWs KT), whereas the 17Pdr can be paired with a brace of Churchills/Comets and a AVRE/Croc.

The price is hefty, but I think its reasonable as you can have it AND a Churchill at the same time.
9 Sep 2015, 13:27 PM
#5
avatar of jellyd0nut

Posts: 171

I'm currently ranked below 100 in 1v1 w Brits, and I would never build a 17 pounder. It is almost useless.
9 Sep 2015, 13:35 PM
#6
avatar of Coventrierer

Posts: 80

i guess it depends on play style and teh kind of match... a Pak 43 or 17 pdr would be really unusefull in 1v1 (most times i guess) but that doesnt mean you cant handle it in other matches like 3v3 or 4v4... its the same problem with the Panzerwerfer. You wont get this one in 1v1s but the more players, the more units, the more dmg, the more usefull. The matches I've played against a 17 pdr were really impressive the way its working like efficiency.

9 Sep 2015, 13:36 PM
#7
avatar of Kubelecer

Posts: 403

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Sep 2015, 13:17 PMl4hti
I dont understand, what is the point of 17 pounder? It costs 70 fuel and like 320 manpower? (im too lazy to check :luvDerp:, while Pak43 costs only 500 manpower.

17 pounder
-Cant shoot through everything without special ability, which costs 90 munitions..
-Can spot for itself with flare
-Garrison bonus
-Brace :foreveralone:

Pak43
-Shoots through everything all the time
-Crew can be sniped
-Cheaper cost


Both of these guns are so easily countered, so what is the point of 17 pounder costing so much? Id like to see 17 pounder cost reduced a lot.


You forgot 20 popcap
9 Sep 2015, 13:38 PM
#8
avatar of MoreLess3rd

Posts: 363

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Sep 2015, 13:17 PMl4hti


17 pounder
-Brace :foreveralone:





You just showed us why 17 pounder is way more durable


+1
9 Sep 2015, 13:40 PM
#9
avatar of Kreatiir

Posts: 2819

I'm currently ranked below 100 in 1v1 w Brits, and I would never build a 17 pounder. It is almost useless.


Sorry mate but that doesn't say much now :D
Too early.
9 Sep 2015, 13:41 PM
#10
avatar of BlackKorp

Posts: 974 | Subs: 2

non doctrinal 17 punder so :foreveralone:
9 Sep 2015, 13:41 PM
#11
avatar of l4hti

Posts: 476

My point is, that Pak43 is much better performing as an anti-tank gun, meanwhile 17pounder suffers from obstacles in map, and its too risky to build because the high cost. Meanwhile OKW which floats so much MP anyway can build pak again, but brits which seem to suffer anything cant really rely in that.

Building a static emplacement which costs 70 fuel and can be countered with two clicks :*(
9 Sep 2015, 13:41 PM
#12
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

I would say Pak43 > 17 Pounder, since the Pak43 is just way more accurate and shoots through things
9 Sep 2015, 13:52 PM
#13
avatar of jellyd0nut

Posts: 171



Sorry mate but that doesn't say much now :D
Too early.


Was waiting for a smart ass remark, and there it is. From a Senior Ref too!
:clap:

Seriously though - it is useless compared to the pak43. Who cares if it can brace, if it can't hit anything. I pwn with a pak43, and the 17 just sucks:

1) Terrible rotation speed

2) Can't see through anything

3) When it does hit it is not impressive

4) Costs a lot for what you get. Resources are better spent some where else.

In 1v1 it is useless. It might be better though in a larger map aimed at a choke point.
9 Sep 2015, 13:54 PM
#14
avatar of Kreatiir

Posts: 2819



Was waiting for a smart ass remark, and there it is. From a Senior Ref too!
:clap:

Seriously though - it is useless compared to the pak43. Who cares if it can brace, if it can't hit anything. I pwn with a pak43, and the 17 just sucks:

1) Terrible rotation speed

2) Can't see through anything

3) When it does hit it is not impressive

4) Costs a lot for what you get. Resources are better spent some where else.

In 1v1 it is useless. It might be better though in a larger map aimed at a choke point.


Haha :) Yes I couldn't leave that one hanging man, sorry :snfPeter:
+1 your arguments though.
9 Sep 2015, 13:59 PM
#15
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

Kreatir Kreatir Kreatir, how could you! Kappa
9 Sep 2015, 14:03 PM
#16
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1

What's the Pop cap for the PAK 43? I'm fairly certain that the 17 Pounder is 20 which means that it accounts a fifth of your army just to provide AT support at a fixed location. Coupled with the 70 (!) fuel cost I haven't been impressed by it at all.

If the current Brace nerf goes live then they seriously better reduce the cost/pop cap or we'll never see them I think.
9 Sep 2015, 14:09 PM
#17
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

What's the Pop cap for the PAK 43? I'm fairly certain that the 17 Pounder is 20 which means that it accounts a fifth of your army just to provide AT support at a fixed location. Coupled with the 70 (!) fuel cost I haven't been impressed by it at all.

If the current Brace nerf goes live then they seriously better reduce the cost/pop cap or we'll never see them I think.


+1 Yesterday just burned 1 away with my MHT within 2 barrages and it was in brace Kappa
9 Sep 2015, 14:45 PM
#18
avatar of RMMLz

Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1

Well, 17pndr is a stock unit which means a lot. Loot at the bigger picture.

See, as Ost or OKW, you have to chose a doctrine just to build a PaK40, which means you will lose MHT which is a big deal for Ost, and the OKW commander is also meh. On the other hand, PaK is easily kited, both doctrinal and non-doctrinal (Doctrinal Arty or just get an IS close). This is more important in smaller game modes (thus smaller maps).

I don't own Brits (will not buy it for like a month or two) and I've only faced it so keep that in mind. But I think 17pndr is good in open maps, specially if you build a mortar near it. It is situational, but it's always in your arsenal.
9 Sep 2015, 15:02 PM
#19
avatar of TheMachine
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 875 | Subs: 6

17 Pounder is a good unit but the 75 fuel and 20 popcap is way too much. It's in an awkward spot where it's hard to get mid game because of the 75 fuel, but then when the fuel isn't a problem in the late game the 20 popcap generally prevents it.

Making it too cheap could make it a bit OP in team games but certainly a popcap reduction would be in order.
9 Sep 2015, 15:16 PM
#20
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

Pak43 is way better.
Why? Because I can put it behind shot blockers so enemy wont see it until its too late.

First impact is very important. Pak43 wont be revealed by advancing infantry, since its hidden while 17 pounder will be.

Because of this first impact I was able once to surprise and knock out IS2 in 9 secs :lol:

Still pounder has better survability but it costs so much it should be damn hard to kill.
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