Balance Preview Update 09/08/2015

Fucking awesome.
Thanks relic, big thanks!

T34 Population increased from 8 to 10 to prevent overwhelming numbers of the tank
Increase range of KT from 40 to 45 to improve its usability into the late game as it can be kited quite easily by tank destroyers
Reduce jadgtiger cost from 800/290 to 720/245 bringing the cost inline with its performance

If no real buffs, reduce Tiger/KT cost bringing the cost inline with its performance?
Elefant/ISU cost?

War Spoils limit from 1000 increased?

Where did you find that 1 second of windup?

http://www.coh2-stats.com/ballistic_weapons/panther_kwk42_75mm_mp

note "wind up/down"

And we go back to the normal % after this patch 90%axis-10%Allies YEeeyyy

USF and Sov armor have less armor in general. So the 57mm would be more effectivess against the USF's own armor.

Exactly.

the pak40 do fire faster, and that's really the biggest advantage the pak40 have.

The biggest advantage the Pak40 has is TWP. Vet 0 a ZiS gun is a better option due to utility and durability, at Vet 1 the Pak40 is better because TWP is the shit.

Hm, can't find those numbers on coh2-stats. Where did you find those numbers?

The OKW Panther has a wind down time of 1 second, adding on to it's reload speed.

You are hopleless here. No point of keeping it.
Im showing how your logic is invalid and broken and you tell me that pak43 is out of meta, while it has nothing to do with it.

You made the point the Pak43 is the bests thing ever, and why would Axis need it if Allied armor isn't hard to penetrate and my rebuttal is that the Pak43 despite "being so awesome as penning" has been out of meta because killing it isn't hard for any faction.

Best at guns belong to axis yet they face paper armor for which is impossible to bounce Pak shell or even schreck (chance to bounce for E8 is just pure laught).

Churchill variants, KV series tanks, Comet, IS2, ISU....

Yet you say that IS should not have 45 because it's not facing 60 range, but you dont want to apply that logic to axis units.

I never said the IS2 shouldn't have 45 range. I just called out your silly comparison. The IS2 can already achieve 50 range with Vet 2.

Im saying about paper armour, you about amount of tanks. Again, you just jump around the point.

All medium armor in the game is paper to normal AT guns. It would be OP if Axis AT guns had a high ROF but lower penetration. You also just danced around the fact that the Rackten doesn't even have 60 range.

On the other hand bazooka and 57mm with bad penetration must face a lot bigger armour.

The 57mm needs to be buffed, no doubt, but the zook has gotten what it needed. Axis heavy armor is also not nearly as common as it used to be.

Yes, zis is good but still worse.

See Above; the ZiS has good utility and durability.

Plus, I dont take brits into this, because they are still during beta process.

lol I'm sure that relic will wipe every leaderboards to compensate right?

There was a whole alpha forum full of feedback and to me it doesnt feel like much has been changed.

The concerns about snipers vs Brits are still there, the oppressive late game is still there, the OTT commando damage is still there and many issues that were raised during the alpha that from my perspective haven't been addressed.

Unfortunately +1.
Dont get me wrong, Relic do great job right now but most of those things were raised during alpha and nothing has been done to fix them so right now we have something like open beta instead of complet version which needs only small tweaks.

Can we please not turn this thread into a shit flinging circus.

Give them feedback. Thats all they want to read.

So much this.

Jason/Brad while you two are kicking butt....any chance to revisit the Elite Armor doctrine? There are some issues with the HEAT shells...

Where did you find that 1 second of windup?

NVM found it, but that is not relevant.

actually wind down/up is relevant. it's additional time added to cooldown/reload in order to make room for any necessary firing animation. Look at any atg or open top vehicle (like jackson) and you will see wind down and up.

Even the bolt action rifle used by the majority of the soldier in this game have wind down for the bolt animation. that bolt working animation is also one of the biggest factor in its ROF.

The panther doesn't have any post firing animation but it's still affected by wind down.

So what? Then let´s increase the Stug range to 60 if every AT unit must have more range. I didn´t see any of the people who are currently crying about the Tiger range, complain about the IS-2 having the same range as Stugs on vet2. Don´t make a problem out of a Tiger which is finally effective. It´s just the usual germanophobia on this forum. -.-

>germanophobia

All hail the ultimate german steel! They pushed the world so much forward with their superior tank designs, it took 50 shermans to kill a panther!!111

Do you realise what's a point of a tank destroyer?

Do you also realize that the game is balanced around asymmetry?

Do you realize Wehrmacht has the least issues out of any faction in the game, due to their superior units?

If you want to buff tiger and garden the jackson which already dies to a gust of wind, then maybe buff the jackson which can't even crush infantry or origami terrain or blitz away. Is every heavy tank now supposed to be the counter to tank destroyers?

Let's not even bring up the USF AT gun, which shoots tin cans. Inb4 '' best at gun vet 1 ability +420 vision range''

actually wind down/up is relevant. it's additional time added to cooldown/reload in order to make room for any necessary firing animation. Look at any atg or open top vehicle (like jackson) and you will see wind down and up.

Even the bolt action rifle used by the majority of the soldier in this game have wind down for the bolt animation. that bolt working animation is also one of the biggest factor in its ROF.

The panther doesn't have any post firing animation but it's still affected by wind down.

I mean it's not relevant in the comparision as no other tanks had their wind down/up times included.

Exactly.

exactly what? The 57mm's performance against US and sov armor is irrelevant to the USF. USF usually do not fight their own armor.

I mean it's not relevant in the comparision as no other tanks had their wind down/up times included.

comet, e8, and the t34 85 doesn't have wind down/up to begin with. This mean the chart overstated the panther's ROF.

note that while panther have a low ROF, it's made up by the fact it's got 50 range. This is also why I prefer a nerf to the comet's range. The comet fire as fast as the other medium but with the panther's range.

exactly what? The 57mm's performance against US and sov armor is irrelevant to the USF. USF usually do not fight their own armor.

The point being a low pen but very high ROF gun would be brutal against USF. But again...

The 57mm needs to be buffed, no doubt,

comet, e8, and the t34 85 doesn't have wind down/up to begin with. This mean the chart overstated the panther's ROF.

note that while panther have a low ROF, it's made up by the fact it's got 50 range. This is also why I prefer a nerf to the comet's range. The comet fire as fast as the other medium but with the panther's range.

You are completely right then, my bad

Why do you guys insist on turning heavies into these counter-all vehicles all the sudden. Weren't we working away from a heavy tank meta..

There is no reason give heavy tanks longer ranges to deal with tank destroyers. Tank destroyers are supposed to kite heavy tanks. Is that not obvious?

To deal with this,you support your heavy tank with 50-60 range units...
The KT literally does not need this. Just park a Jp4(which flat out beats SU85s and jacksons) right next to it..

Same with tiger,even though its harder since they lack a 60 range TD

+1

The point being a low pen but very high ROF gun would be brutal against USF. But again...

that low pen also make the 57mm useless against most Axis armor.

>germanophobia

All hail the ultimate german steel! They pushed the world so much forward with their superior tank designs, it took 50 shermans to kill a panther!!111

You pretty much gave the prime example of what I meant. The Tiger is under-performing currently. But god forbid there´s going to be a buff for a German unit. And it´s even worse if it´s a German tank. better post "kruppsteehl" etc. to oppose effective German armor.

Dont like the many of the changes.

Dont buff dont nerf just remove useless ML20 from 1v1 game. And swap t3476 with 85 version. 76 can be callin.
I would like all team games removed from automatch and focus on 1v1 balance. Which is not good curently.

that low pen also make the 57mm useless against most Axis armor.

Did you not read my entire post

Same with tiger,even though its harder since they lack a 60 range TD(SO BUFF THE STUG TO BE INLINE WITH OTHER FACTIONS 60 RANGE TD's,NOT THE TIGER. #JustRelicBalancing),park double paks,or a couple stugs with a halftrack to reinforce paks that were hit by artillery.

actually the stug is good enough. In a 1v1 at close range the stug will easily win against the jackson and the firely. against the su-85 it's mostly about who get the first shot.

I was hoping they would give incendiary grenades to Sturms instead of Volks. I still think it's really damaging to the ww2 feel of the game if german basic infantry throw the not-so-iconic incendiary grenade instead of the very recognizeable 'Stielhandgrenade'.

And Sturms are specialists. I don't get Relics logic. I see what they are trying to do gameplay-wise, but I dislike what it does to the game's persuasive power as a ww2 rts, and I also think incendiaries on Sturms would score a similar, if not better impact on gameplay (taking into consideration what I think it is they are going for).