Ostheer mid-late game common goals?

Hello

I'm just getting back into the game after a few years out.

I've had some success with 3-4 grens then MG or sniper, or both. Then I usually go for a pak and/or an assault gren with a shrek depending on what the opponent is doing. The main focus is to not get run off the field by a light vehicle.

Provided I don't screw up I can usually hold OK with this army. But what should my next goal be?

I've tried the strat of getting Stug-E and holding on for Tiger, but that seems a bit slow to me although it works if your enemy is playing infantry heavy.

I've read people not recommending heavy tanks in 1v1 but I've also been beaten by things like soviets with IS-2 and/or T34-85s and for this you seem to need something like a Panther or a Tiger.

What does a good mid to late game ostheer build look like?

I would like to see a good answer to this.

You need to be more specific. Build orders and teching are different for every faction, also it depends on what units your opponent builds and the commander he has chosen. Maps also play a part...

Provide a replay, many people here will review it and give advice.

I find it really depends. did you have a strong early game leading up into the mid game, where you held your own fuel for the entire/majority of the time and held a decent portion of the map? consider going for a quick Ostwind or a panzer 4 to seal the game.

did you and your opponent have a bit of a stalemate where no side has a clear advantage? depending on your commander loadout, you can either stall for tiger like you touched on in the original post, or even going into panzer 4s isn't a bad idea.

did you make some mistakes and are playing from behind? get a pak or two and try to claw your way back into the game.

also, remember to lay down at least one teller mine in the early game. mines win games, and if your opponent is lazy about sweeping (or at lower skill games, completely ignores buying them) you can completely swing the momentum in your favor. managing your resources as Ostheer is important. LMG42s are amazing weapons, as are the aforementioned teller mines. Stug Es are also extremely potent weapons to have, and a tiger for the late game.

hope that helps

Thanks for the input. I don't really have any replays worth showing I was more interested in general thoughts on what is conventional ideas.

Teller mines are really good I agree, you can really get people on Semois with them. I've won a few games against brits already by getting their bren or AC with them.

Also targeting the Pz4 seems good unless you're being pressured by heavy tanks - it's really not good enough against those. How does the stug's gun compare to the Pz4? I'm used to it being a bit more AT in COH1 than the pz4 which is more of a generalist tank.

the stug did get a pretty good buff in one of the more recent patches, but against things like IS2s I personally rather have a pak than a stug. you save fuel that way and get basically the same results.

OK, so if you feel heavy tanks are on the way you either tech onward to a Panther and/or buy paks yeah?

I've heard some people talking about holding on for a tiger and backing it up with Stugs, how do you see that idea?

in team games you can go panthers without getting punished hard for it, but in 1v1 you generally need a pretty massive lead to go panthers.

if you know your opponent is going for a heavy tank call in you need to either try to punish him for stalling and win before he can get it or you need to prepare by getting paks and tellers down. people who stall for heavy tanks generally can get them out by around teh 20 minute mark. win before or prepare accordingly

Mine every flank and direct approach an enemy tank can take, so that he hits the tellers and becomes easy target practice for your paks. I always get a pak supported by double stugs (and if you can double pak) or pak supported by p4 (double pak if you can)

T4 in 1v1 isn't your best gamble, it only works if the game is quite long. Your safest bet is either double Stug 3 supported by a pak (or two if you can afford it) or a Panzer 4 supported by double paks. Again mine everything while you can. build a muni cahce to support this mining!

These combo's can always defend your teritory from anything that faces it. Your paks have a high reload speed and can damage any Allied tank from the front. This in combination with the 'Target Weak Point' ability and mining should realize a situation in which no enemy tank can escape. Support your paks with mobile at platforms, either a P4 or Stug 3 (or double) and you can win any engagement!

Two or three StuGs can kill any Allied armour, especially if backed by a command tank. They're rather economical as well - low popcap, relatively low fuel cost. The absence of a turret isn't that big of a deal, imo, so long as your micro's up to speed.

I usually aim to have:

- Five Grenadier squads
- 2-3 StuGs
- Command Panzer IV
- Possibly an Ostwind
- LeFH-18 howitzer

If you can get this, you're probably going to win.

Whatever b/o you end up going make sure you concentrate on taking and holding your muni and fuel, once you consolidated a pretty good position you can slowly push out from here. I find that Ostheer is very powerful when played this way.

And make sure you don't overextend too quickly and that your paks are not directly on your frontline to get swamped by inf, keep 'em in back!

My post will be written from a 1v1 perspective.

I find a core base of 4 infantry squads - 4 grens or 3 Grens and a PG, 1-2 Machineguns, and a Pak 40 to be a good core.

Depending on the situation, getting a mortar or a sniper in addition to the above list works well.

As was mentioned previously, two Stug III Gs are effective at shutting down enemy armor. Mines help considerably, especially on maps with choke points (Kholodny Ferma) or lots of roads (Langreskaya). If I get two Stugs for AT, a command P4 is definitely a good option.
It modifies damage in the aura to the value of 0.8, effectively giving all your units 20% more HP. With the P4 command tank, my preferred commander would be Blitzkrieg; Panzer Tactician improves survivability of armor and Stuka CAS can be game-changing late game (I usually get 2 muni caches to spam the damn thing).

Typically, instead of 2 Stugs, I will go for P4s. One, usually two. With Lightning War, it's possible to get 2 P4s and a Tiger - a fearsome AT and AI combination, especially when the P4s get to double vet (increased armor, HP). At that stage I usually just tech up to T4 and replace any P4 lost with a Panther. This assumes that I keep my vetted LMG grens alive, partially fulfilling the gap of AI if I lose a P4 and replace it with a Panther. NB: with Lightning, you also get access to Stuka CAS

Vehicles I recommend ignoring would be the Brummbar. a Panzerwerfer can just be a waste of fuel and popcap in 1v1 when you need a panther or you need a P4.

Mobile Defence doctrine is definitely viable. Command P4 w/ double Pumas (who have Target Weak Point, just like Stug) can effectively keep medium armor at bay. You must tech up against Jacksons or heavy soviet armor, unless if you manage to lure said vehicles into a teller in front of a couple Paks/schreck Pgrens.


But, really, that base I put up there, that's where I like to start. After that it's all up to you.
It's certainly viable to get a 3rd MG anytime in the game. But remember, always keep your MGs supported with a unit ready to cover their flank or scout for maximum-range suppression.

@Gbpirate

Thanks for the detailed info, it's very useful.

How many units would you recommend getting before you tech? The main thing has to be getting to a PAK/Scout/shrek squad asap yeah?

All the allies seem to have shock light vehicles that can really screw you up even if you're doing well (quads, stuart, AC etc.)

I see a lot of people not liking MG's, do you find them critical or can you get by with just grens?