because daspoulos is an axis fanboy *irony*
just my 2 cent
Never named him did I?
1600 health tanks.
2 Sep 2015, 17:43 PM
#61
Posts: 657
Never named him did I?
2 Sep 2015, 17:43 PM
#62
Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1
Lets see we got the stug e, the tiger, the ostwind for okw, the jagdtiger, elefant, pz4 command tank. Plus tiger ace which is legitimately overpowered. And perhaps a few more tanks I am missing. All overpowered. Thanks queen. I will forward this to relic so they can batch nerf all these germa- err... "nazi" tanks. Yeah thats better.
P.S. eat shit.
True that
2 Sep 2015, 17:44 PM
#63
Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2
Permanently Banned
Lets see we got the stug e, the tiger, the ostwind for okw, the jagdtiger, elefant, pz4 command tank. Plus tiger ace which is legitimately overpowered. And perhaps a few more tanks I am missing. All overpowered. Thanks queen. I will forward this to relic so they can batch nerf all these germa- err... "nazi" tanks. Yeah thats better.
P.S. eat shit.
Yes compare all those call-ins to what the current allied factions get.
P.S. Mad? Stay Mad. Its a fucking PC game.
There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
2 Sep 2015, 17:45 PM
#64
1 Posts: 412
Pak 43 will be new Meta.
I can actually see the defensive doctrine with tank traps and the pak43 being useful against the brits.
I can actually see the defensive doctrine with tank traps and the pak43 being useful against the brits.
2 Sep 2015, 17:47 PM
#65
Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7
Something you guys may be overlooking is that, because the HP is so high, it takes a long time to repair these tanks. A bad engagement will mean the tank will be out of action for a long time, even if you didn't destroy it.
doesnt get player that choose anvil(that one with churchill) double repair speed ?
correct me if im wrong
2 Sep 2015, 17:51 PM
#66
Posts: 2053
doesnt get player that choose anvil(that one with churchill) double repair speed ?
correct me if im wrong
Yes, as well as becoming armed with a Vickers K LMG, but the squad also moves slow as molasses.
2 Sep 2015, 17:52 PM
#67
Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1
doesnt get player that choose anvil(that one with churchill) double repair speed ?
correct me if im wrong
yea something like that.
2 Sep 2015, 18:24 PM
#68
Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41
1600 HP for stock Churchill seems fair.
It's good only at soaking damage.
It has a better gun than KV-1, while having double the health, and 10 more armor, and more MG damage even at vet0 (and gaining more at vet1). For 5 fuel and 120mp more.
Lets not forget that vetted Sturmtiger has over 1400 (IIRC).
Yes the Sturmtiger is a bullshit unit that needs a nerf too, but even with the vet2 buff it still has 38 less armor and 160 less health than the vet0 Churchill.
Units for 200fuel are deadly in CoH2. Churchill isnt. So Id say keep 1600 for stock one, or lower to 1280 but also with price decrease.
150 fuel isn't 200. Churchill is priced like a medium fuel wise despite having the highest raw survivability of any vehicle in the game.
2 Sep 2015, 18:27 PM
#69
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Pak 43 will be new Meta.
I can actually see the defensive doctrine with tank traps and the pak43 being useful against the brits.
Festung support.
Hull down for Stugs and Panther, Railway (which needs buff since Sturmtiger AoE is bigger than 680mm shell) against emplacements + command tank and smoke to support.
2 Sep 2015, 18:30 PM
#70
4 Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1
Churchill should be reworked to a high armor (325-350) heavy HP (1290) tank. That should also come with a fuel increase to ~190. It is currently priced as a heavy medium, when for all intents and purposes it is a heavy with a medium's maingun.
The closest equivalent unit to the Churchill is the KV1, but the KV1 has worse vet, armor, HP, and gun. You cannot justify (the churchill's) current performance on its similarity to the KV1.
The 190ish fuel price will also delay it, and make skipping Cromwells and going for a fast Churchill far more punishing. Currently, for 40 fuel more (65 if you count tech) you get a slower tank with much better everything else.
The closest equivalent unit to the Churchill is the KV1, but the KV1 has worse vet, armor, HP, and gun. You cannot justify (the churchill's) current performance on its similarity to the KV1.
The 190ish fuel price will also delay it, and make skipping Cromwells and going for a fast Churchill far more punishing. Currently, for 40 fuel more (65 if you count tech) you get a slower tank with much better everything else.
2 Sep 2015, 18:33 PM
#71
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Festung support.
Hull down for Stugs and Panther, Railway (which needs buff since Sturmtiger AoE is bigger than 680mm shell) against emplacements + command tank and smoke to support.
The Sturmtiger at no point ever did larger AoE than the railway artillery piece, the 80cm shell has an AoE radius of 12, the Sturmtiger used to have 10 and now has 8.
2 Sep 2015, 18:37 PM
#72
Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41
The Sturmtiger at no point ever did larger AoE than the railway artillery piece, the 80cm shell has an AoE radius of 12, the Sturmtiger used to have 10 and now has 8.
Railway damage at radius 4.5: 0.15*600 = 90
Railway damage at radius 6: 0.05*600 = 30
Sturmtiger damage at radius 5: 1*640 = 640
Sturmtiger damage at radius 10: 0.3*640 = 192
2 Sep 2015, 18:39 PM
#73
Posts: 2053
Churchill should be reworked to a high armor (325-350) heavy HP (1290) tank. That should also come with a fuel increase to ~190. It is currently priced as a heavy medium, when for all intents and purposes it is a heavy with a medium's maingun.
The closest equivalent unit to the Churchill is the KV1, but the KV1 has worse vet, armor, HP, and gun. You cannot justify (the churchill's) current performance on its similarity to the KV1.
The 190ish fuel price will also delay it, and make skipping Cromwells and going for a fast Churchill far more punishing. Currently, for 40 fuel more (65 if you count tech) you get a slower tank with much better everything else.
Ah, good. It was changed to 150 as it used to cost 180 and people didnt want to build it over comet.
So moar Comets shall be used.
2 Sep 2015, 18:41 PM
#74
Posts: 262
Comet. It's combination of speed, firepower, armor and hp is nuts. And 50 range (confirmed by Relic).
It's a Panther on steroids that can actually fight off infantry.
Soo.. A tiger/is2? But with more range?
In hoc signo vinces!
2 Sep 2015, 18:44 PM
#75
4 Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1
Ah, good. It was changed to 150 as it used to cost 180 and people didnt want to build it over comet.
So moar Comets shall be used.
Thats why I said around 190. 180 would probably be fair too. The thing is, just because players prefer one unit over another doesn't mean that the underused unit needs a buff. The Churchill fulfills a different role than the comet, and people typically don't need that particular role.
The Churchill will still be useful as a breakthrough unit, it just won't be broken.
2 Sep 2015, 18:50 PM
#76
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
It has a better gun than KV-1, while having double the health, and 10 more armor, and more MG damage even at vet0 (and gaining more at vet1). For 5 fuel and 120mp more.
Yes the Sturmtiger is a bullshit unit that needs a nerf too, but even with the vet2 buff it still has 38 less armor and 160 less health than the vet0 Churchill.
150 fuel isn't 200. Churchill is priced like a medium fuel wise despite having the highest raw survivability of any vehicle in the game.
If comparing with KV1, its obvious that Churchill should have superior armor rather that superior health.
I mean, 152mm of front is more than IS2 so from historical point of view it should have less HP but insane armour, like 1040 (1280 vet 2) with 350-400armour.
But Relic went in different, ahistorical direction, idk why. Still, it has to have great survability by armor or by health.
PS
Did not know they change it to 150
The Sturmtiger at no point ever did larger AoE than the railway artillery piece, the 80cm shell has an AoE radius of 12, the Sturmtiger used to have 10 and now has 8.
Railway damage at radius 4.5: 0.15*600 = 90
Railway damage at radius 6: 0.05*600 = 30
Sturmtiger damage at radius 5: 1*640 = 640
Sturmtiger damage at radius 10: 0.3*640 = 192
2 Sep 2015, 18:56 PM
#77
Posts: 1702
If comparing with KV1, its obvious that Churchill should have superior armor rather that superior health.
I mean, 152mm of front is more than IS2 so from historical point of view it should have less HP but insane armour, like 1040 (1280 vet 2) with 350-400armour.
But Relic went in different, ahistorical direction, idk why. Still, it has have great survability by armor or by health.
PS
Did not know they changed it to 150
Actually, the churchills armor was not sloped i believe, the 120mm on the IS-2 was sloped at 60 degrees, giving ~240 mm LOS thichkness. Of course this doesn't really mean anything in game.
2 Sep 2015, 18:57 PM
#78
Posts: 836 | Subs: 5
Just ask Sib why 1600 HP is dumb on the AVRE and Crocodile.
I agree 1600 hp is fine on the base churchill since it isn't exactly a tank that has a devastating gun, its a meat shield. The AVRE and Crocodile retain the survivability yet are extremely deadly combat units.
War speed AVRE pushing and retreating into an elefant, KT, and pak is the most skilless and most blatantly broken thing in this build. Trying to argue otherwise when people have given you hard statistics is asinine. There is no situation that an extremely hard counter, a hard counter, and a heavy tank should not be able to deal with a single tank pushing up, and hardly bringing it down to 30% HP by the time it has fired and retreated with War Speed.
I agree 1600 hp is fine on the base churchill since it isn't exactly a tank that has a devastating gun, its a meat shield. The AVRE and Crocodile retain the survivability yet are extremely deadly combat units.
War speed AVRE pushing and retreating into an elefant, KT, and pak is the most skilless and most blatantly broken thing in this build. Trying to argue otherwise when people have given you hard statistics is asinine. There is no situation that an extremely hard counter, a hard counter, and a heavy tank should not be able to deal with a single tank pushing up, and hardly bringing it down to 30% HP by the time it has fired and retreated with War Speed.
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Devils_Brigade: man captain molo why dont you just buy and m3 drive that around instead of playing coh
2 Sep 2015, 18:58 PM
#79
Posts: 262
Well, now when i think about it. Relic should re-design Panthers because it will be ridiculous that tank-(hunter*) like Panther with so small DPS will need alot, and i mean alot of time to destroy a single Churchill tank. Even if u hit and penetrate every time.
In hoc signo vinces!
2 Sep 2015, 18:59 PM
#80
Posts: 513
Stiger doesnt have 1600 hp and can be 1 shot if reloading
In return it can fire from FoW due to range.... doesn't need high health if its not being shot at.
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