Lets talk about Tommy Atkins

For 280 MP without the upgrade you get a solid 4 man squad when in green cover that can win near all 1v1 engagements. With the 100 MP 15(?) fuel upgrade you get access to then up this to a 5 man squad with the unit costing the same to call in, BUT, is it worth building more then 2?

I have played 3 games online (both 1v1) won against OST, lost to the first OKW encounter and won the second, but have mostly been playing against expert A.I (Which has had some bloody changes let me tell you) and my current build order ignores Tommie's after I build 1, opting for a tech up followed by (quite simply) Engie spam for infantry instead.

Starting Tommy > MG > Tommy > Tech up > Sniper or engi (most usually sniper but that forgoes a little bit of forward map control although as UKF, you don't want to push too deep anyway) > engi > AT > Tech or 5 man squads > when tech go Anvil > give all engies the free upgrade > Profit.

The only use I have for Tommies then is to heal units or camp behind sandbags to hold off scouting infantry.

Tommy is good, a great unit in cover but is it actually worth it? does anyone build more than 2?3? and if so, how do you use them to a good effect? The early MG is vital to the ideal that UKF are hard to push off and it is a great MG too, 2 burst pin + high damge that gets better inside buildings with vet so building more than 1 Tommy early seems like a bad move to me.

Maybe I am rushing to tech to fast as I try get them out as soon as they become available, hording all my fuel until I get the first tank out and investing into Tommy (Bren, Nades, +1 squad) is actually a better way to use the infantry and will bring greater rewards than engie spam, yet, losing just 1 Tommy squad is a huge blow, losing 2 models is bad enough, that's 70 MP!

How do you use them?

I haven't played any pvp as Brits yet, but I lost a very close match to another player this morning who took 4 Tommies, Bren Carrier, AEC, Commando spam, armed all the Tommies with PIATs and Brens, and then saved all his fuel, got two Comets in quick succession, killed 3 P4s and a Puma with them, and drove into my base and won. -.-

So I suppose you could try that.

Most matches playing against mates cos automatch is nails to get brits atm, but i'm fond on tommies. But my strats for all armies involve basing off a solid core of line infantry.

+1 tommy
+1 mg
+1 tommy
Bren ou +1 tommy
then tech.
Up flame bren and try que rape out at least 1 squad.


everything is new in britsh army...so the people have a little tendency and tech up but hold ground it is important in a 1v1 game and with 3/4 tommy with mg suporte u can easly avoit to be cut off.

Try to focus ammo to get bren flamer...it's really devastanting against infantary and u can get really quicly.

Dont be afraid to stay in Tier 1 as UKF.

Alot of people are wanting to tech as fast as possible even when they shouldnt.

Try 4 IS's into Royal Engineers w/ Bofors or scout car

With my second Brit account (Boba Fett, currently 8 at 2vs2 random) I have been playing almost 100 2vs2 randoms now. To get at least a half decent brits early-mid game you have to understand that IS are the worst baseline infantry in the game right now as they dont really excel at anything in the early game.

Cons:
- High pop cap (8 when upgraded)
- High reinforcement cost
- High initial cost
- Dont have dps to chase any squad on retreat or force sniper to move back
- No good vet until vet2, but even with vet2 they will still drop like flies to indirect fire, sniper etc.
- Bad dps out of cover and only decent dps while in cover
- No AT snare and Piats sucks as well against fast moving light armor
- need 120 munitions for brens just to compete with a single lmg gren
- Zero flanking abilities as their grenades sucks which also cost fuel/mp
- Cant wire, repair or plant mines like other factions starting unit

Pros:
- Good healing ability
- Scale well with vet (but bleed alot of mp before that)
- Can build green cover and trench

The bottom line is that the cons far outweight the pros, so they are not really useful for more than a support unit that you use for healing/artillery flares/building cover etc..

So Brits are left with 3 other early-mid game options for AI infantry;
1) RE spam with support (good late game synergy with churchills tanks for fast repair)
2) Commandos with support
3) Combined arms with snipers/mg etc.

With the new patch try;
+ MG, MG, UC, T2 (similar to what Braden was using in the recent Relic balance Q&A) or MG, UC, T2

From there you go with either 1, 2, 3 with your personal build preferences. Personal in 2vs2s, if I am low on mp, I wont even bother reinforcing my starting IS and use it primary for healing. The UC dont necessarily need to be upgraded against werh until you sure that it can be protected against 222s (with a sniper, AT gun, mines, Tank hunters, AC).

Imo, IS starting unit should be replaced with a RE squad and increase starting MP to compensate. Move IS to T2 and give them more specialization with the T2 hammer or Anvil upgrade.
As example, with T2 hammer > Brits get Tank Hunters with AT rifle/grenades or T2 Anvil Brits IS get a free lmg vicker and/or more defensive bonus.

IS are UKF's main weak point. Don't build more than one unit, spend your MP on your stronger options; emplacements and HMGs.


Ostruppen can beat IS quite easily.

With my second Brit account (Boba Fett, currently 8 at 2vs2 random) I have been playing almost 100 2vs2 randoms now. To get at least a half decent brits early-mid game you have to understand that IS are the worst baseline infantry in the game right now as they dont really excel at anything in the early game.

Cons:
- High pop cap (8 when upgraded)
- High reinforcement cost
- High initial cost
- Dont have dps to chase any squad on retreat or force sniper to move back
- No good vet until vet2, but even with vet2 they will still drop like flies to indirect fire, sniper etc.
- Bad dps out of cover and only decent dps while in cover
- No AT snare and Piats sucks as well against fast moving light armor
- need 120 munitions for brens just to compete with a single lmg gren
- Zero flanking abilities as their grenades sucks which also cost fuel/mp
- Cant wire, repair or plant mines like other factions starting unit

Pros:
- Good healing ability
- Scale well with vet (but bleed alot of mp before that)
- Can build green cover and trench

The bottom line is that the cons far outweight the pros, so they are not really useful for more than a support unit that you use for healing/artillery flares/building cover etc..

So Brits are left with 3 other early-mid game options for AI infantry;
1) RE spam with support (good late game synergy with churchills tanks for fast repair)
2) Commandos with support
3) Combined arms with snipers/mg etc.

With the new patch try;
+ MG, MG, UC, T2 (similar to what Braden was using in the recent Relic balance Q&A) or MG, UC, T2

From there you go with either 1, 2, 3 with your personal build preferences. Personal in 2vs2s, if I am low on mp, I wont even bother reinforcing my starting IS and use it primary for healing. The UC dont necessarily need to be upgraded against werh until you sure that it can be protected against 222s (with a sniper, AT gun, mines, Tank hunters, AC).

Imo, IS starting unit should be replaced with a RE squad and increase starting MP to compensate. Move IS to T2 and give them more specialization with the T2 hammer or Anvil upgrade.
As example, with T2 hammer > Brits get Tank Hunters with AT rifle/grenades or T2 Anvil Brits IS get a free lmg vicker and/or more defensive bonus.

Couldn't sum it up better

So this means that I have play Brits the stupid way all along! Crap! I have always trusted IS as my base line forces! But I still see IS being quite good vs enemy infantries tho

So this means that I have play Brits the stupid way all along! Crap! I have always trusted IS as my base line forces! But I still see IS being quite good vs enemy infantries tho

wtf is this thread... Also he's playing 2v2 but IS aren't bad, the problem is that they cost as much as Riflemen but don't have the same explosive power and come in 4 man squads which are prone to Snipers. I'd probably lower their initial and reinforcement cost to reflect how good they are because even with vet3, 2 brens and bolster afaik they still lose to vet 3 lmg grens

I tend not to build any, just relying on my starting squad.

Whilst I'm an awful player the mechanics aren't any different for me.

The reason being that IS are good at holding ground but distinctly meh at attacking anything without expensive upgrades. The Vic though is far superior at holding ground and two make for a force that can take ground too, sometimes even garrisons. Set one up at range whilst advancing another and even several squads tend to retreat against it once you persuade them that they can't outflank..

Hence my one IS has a job to do, which is initial capping, holding garrisons until a Vic arrives and then building trenches for Vics and healing them in garrisons. One trenched Vic can persuade squads to try elsewhere, IS can do the same but only once you've spent money on Brens much later in the game.

Frankly all of the infantry other than Commandos seem to be a distraction from the UKF strength in medium armour, though the Engis are much better at taking ground both by dint of cheapness, close range strength and being able to repair the supporting armour or deny ground with mines.

When I do build several IS early I tend to find manpower bleed problems just around the corner. Relying on Vics though tends to see mortars or ISGs as the counter which my later armour can hunt.

I'll often build them in the later game whilst waiting for fuel to tick up but with Brens right off the bat and pyrotechnics to deny a VP for almost minute. Generally then if I'm holding a 2 VP lead and my armour can't be everywhere at once.

Another thing about the IS is that bulletins on your Vics can make a huge difference, but are barely noticeable on IS. With the primary role of both being to deny the Vickers is an easy choice seeing as the cost is the same. 4 Engis are far superior to 3 IS without upgrades or vet so the choice there is an easy one too.

I tested Tommies vs other infantry in the cheats mod

Tommies vs Sturms: Tommies will lose even if they get to fire at the Sturms from max range from Green cover.

Tommies vs Assault Grens: Same as Sturms.

Tommies vs Ostruppen: Tommies will win but it will take a very long time if they're both in green cover.

vet 3 Tommies vs vet 5 Volks: Will win but will be a long drawn out fight. Schreck doesn't make too much of a difference

vet 3 Tommies vs vet 5 Obers: Tommies will convincingly lose

vet 3 Tommies w/ bolster & 2 Brens vs vet 3 LMG Grens: Tommies will win

"vet 3 Tommies vs vet 5 Volks: Will win but will be a long drawn out fight. Schreck doesn't make too much of a difference"

You've hit the problematic nail on the head... I've often seen Tommies losing to Shreck Volks, but it does seem to be dependant upon RNG, the Shrecks don't seem to reduce the AI anywhere near as much as they should. 4 rifles against 2 + unwieldly and heavy AT, you'd think Tommies would walk it. Unfortunately you have to add Brens to have a decisive advantage.

Of all of them I find the Ostruppen the hardest to deal with. Not sure how much they are but guessing cheap given the numbers you face.

At least Engineers have a window of superiority at short range against the common types, IS are just a bit meh against every infantry type you face unless you upgrade them with bolster or Brens. Being good in cover is fine except that the enemy is in cover too.

Don't get me wrong, bolster in particular gives you a decisive advantage. Trouble is you have to field several squads to make it worth it, which leads to a manpower bleed that is problematic in comparison to slightly more conservative Vic usage. By the time you can afford bolster getting armour out is more important.

Sending waves in works, and probably bleeds them slightly more than you, but not enough to make it a decisive advantage until late game where you have bolstered, brenned and vetted. You can annoy them but not knock them out...

If used with a bren and a forward retreat point they pack a punch. I think that although bad in team games, 3 are quite viable in 1v1. As long as you can use a forward retreat point well on the map, your good to go. It is also important to get some cromwells / AEC out as you have no AT early. This adds a sort of defensive mobility to your army. You cannot rush forward with tommies, but you can do ungodly quantities of damage while stationary.

My most annoying point with IS is that they lose to 200mp Osttruppen in a straight up fight and these guys are basically helpless vs sniper.

My most annoying point with IS is that they lose to 200mp Osttruppen in a straight up fight and these guys are basically helpless vs sniper.

You can count on ostruppen. No, really, you can!

My most annoying point with IS is that they lose to 200mp Osttruppen in a straight up fight and these guys are basically helpless vs sniper.

Read my post, they don't lose. Go try it in a game.

However IS take ages to take them out and a lot of people like using Ostruppen to screen for MGs or Snipers. Ostruppen is a hilariously bad match up for IS as Ostruppen is all about early game and IS is so bad at early game.

I tested Tommies vs other infantry in the cheats mod
vet 3 Tommies vs vet 5 Volks: Will win but will be a long drawn out fight. Schreck doesn't make too much of a difference

Shreck would make a different if it somehow hit the cover and Tommies got caught in the open. Also IS tend to jump around if Shreck shot near them.

Shreck would make a different if it somehow hit the cover and Tommies got caught in the open. Also IS tend to jump around if Shreck shot near them.

yeah i know but in my testing tommies still won but in general it's a mostly even fight in favor of tommies. in a real scenario it would probably be who has the better support or numbers

I can see the allure of Tommies in 1vs1 and, maybe, 2vs2. However, in teamgames, Tommies are easily the most useless unit you can encounter.

My #1 beef against them is the penalty they receive at vet3. You know, the one that makes them prefer using their scoped Enfields over Brens/Piats. This same penalty is the one that's also responsible for them dropping their weapons at every opportunity when the squad is down to 3 men.

Currently, I find the utility of Tommies to be sub-par (in teamgames).

As anti-infantry:
- Due to their vet3 penalty, you need to make sure that you never lose models (good luck with that!)
- They have atrocious moving accuracy; that's something that the enemy can easily exploit by building 1-2 mortars
- Unable to pull a flank (no reliable smoke until Cromwells, moving inaccuracy)
- Ineffective grenades; expensive to unlock, require you to walk up close where Tommies will deal subpar damage
- Even if they make it to the late game, their static nature makes them a prime target for rocket artillery (for comparison, try aiming a barrage on Riflemen)

As anti-vehicle:
- No snares
- Even if Tommies pick up PIATs/Schrecks, their cover penalty (+30% reload) will render these weapons useless
- (AT Tommies are actually very decent in that department due to their vehicle detection perk)

As a healing unit:
- Their healing ability has a very low healing rate
- This requires you to pull a Tommy squad out of combat for ~25secs so that they can heal the rest of your army
- (If you're going Vanguard, the Medics are worth every penny)

As a builder unit:
- Unable to repair things (The Advanced Troll Regiment will change that)
- No construction speed perk with veterancy
- Can't construct barbed wire (yes, I know the ghost-sandbags trick)

Tommies are not a great unit that wins you games. Instead it's an easy-to-counter unit that you are forced to use because of their healing/construction perks.