Why OH has +1 squad in the opening

If you start 1 con then T1 or T2. Which is the only viable ways to start vs OH now. (old school straith 4-5 cons is the way to lose now)
Then OH has 1 more squad and quite an advantage cuz of this. If they play normally they wil retain that extra unit advantage forever.

Is it intended or mistake?

Depends on gamemode, map (wich side), opponent etc. Maybe ask the question in the "Ask the strategist" topic.

Depends on gamemode, map (wich side), opponent etc.

Im sorry. What?

Yep, after 1st tech by any faction, Ostheer has 1 more squad on the field than any other faction.


Too much starting manpower.

Probably because a sensible Soviet player will rush out a M5 and win.

Probably because a sensible Soviet player will rush out a M5 and win.

What is this deadly M5 build? That you say gardens everithing. Open T1/T2 (depending on map) -> 1 T1/T2 unit -> 3 cons. Then what?

Not sure whats better overall T70 or M5. But if you go T70 have lot more to counter whats coming just after T70 (120 muni) - puma or mediums. Plus t70 has more acceleration and rotaion speed, with same armor, almost similar dps.

Never had trouble with quad rush... L2P and anticipate your opponents move. If you are struggling, go doctrinal puma.. win... god damn.

Why do you open with a tier? Go 3 cons into a tier

Why do you open with a tier? Go 3 cons into a tier

I didnt try 3 cons before tier only 4-5. I will try 3 into tier.
3 may be the bset number with current patch.

Ostheer only got +60 MP at the start. How is that +1 squad?

Ostheer only got +60 MP at the start. How is that +1 squad?

ostheer gets their first 3 units (starting pio, hmg, gren) faster than they used to.

Ostheer only got +60 MP at the start. How is that +1 squad?

It lets them buy two squads from the get go because of this is what he means.

ostheer gets their first 3 units (starting pio, hmg, gren) faster than they used to.

Ah. Thanks.

Well if the Ostheer doesnt have a teller or some kind of AT ready he is kind of screwed if he gets m5 quad rushed. (not saying you cant come back from it)

Why do you open with a tier? Go 3 cons into a tier

Is this right text bellow.

The main thing that in the begining you cannot fight whole army vs whole army as it was some time ago.
Cuz they have 4 AI unit types and you only cons without +1 squad advantage.

So I think you mean get 3 cons to cap and defend vs non supported squads and dont fight for initiative early. Right?

Is this right text bellow.

The main thing that in the begining you cannot fight whole army vs whole army as it was some time ago.
Cuz they have 4 AI unit types and you only cons without +1 squad advantage.

So I think you mean get 3 cons to cap and defend vs non supported squads and dont fight for initiative early. Right?

you have to play smarter. stick to green covers and houses more, make sure ur units are in proximity so they can flank and support each other. cons are still really good early game units and you shouldnt underestimate their mid range firepower. the most important thing is to not get caught in a bad spot by an MG42

What is this deadly M5 build? That you say gardens everithing. Open T1/T2 (depending on map) -> 1 T1/T2 unit -> 3 cons. Then what?

Not sure whats better overall T70 or M5. But if you go T70 have lot more to counter whats coming just after T70 (120 muni) - puma or mediums. Plus t70 has more acceleration and rotaion speed, with same armor, almost similar dps.

Conscript + T2 opening, maxim, conscript, maxim, combat engineers -> T3 -> M5 quad.

Ostheer medium tanks arrive very late. It will take your opponent a solid 7-8 minutes after your M5 quad hits the field to get out a P4, and that is assuming he actually manages to hold his fuel while you have the M5 quad on the field.

Because of the large fuel gap between Soviet T3 and Ostheer T3, you only need an AT gun very late so you don't have to worry about that (unless they have mobile defense) for a long time. Your opponent on the other hand will need to invest in early AT guns. You can abuse this fact by going bonkers on the anti-infantry firepower and finish your opponent before he can get a P4 out. For example, you can go M5 quad -> T70 -> 2nd M5 quad and you will still have a good 3-5 minutes before a P4 hits the field. During this time you can simply over-run his 2 AT guns and his infantry, killing them all and stealing all his weapons (plenty of on-field reinforcements with 2 quads). Doesn't matter if you lose one or two of your light vehicles in the process because you will have hit AT guns.

The matchup is pretty messed up at the moment. I have won quite a few games against decent opponents long before they even had a chance to produce a T3 unit. This is why mobile defence is suddenly included into every Ostheer players load-out.

So 3 squads (2 gren + 1 pio) OH is 12 men vs first 3 squads of cons = 18 men. Are you forgetting the squad size? How easy it is to force one of those grens squads to retreat at low health with 1-2 men left?? With focus fire and more survivable unit size, I think that balances things pretty well.....

This is why mobile defence is suddenly included into every Ostheer players load-out.

Pretty much. It's call in meta the doctrine (so essentially the Mech Assault of the new meta) for a couple of reasons:

-Due to the delay of Ost T3 the CPIV can often hit before a normal PIV would, also no teching costs!

-Puma has old TWP and is very cheap and spammable, when combined with the CPIV it can go toe to toe with enemy tanks

-Ostruppen allow for the ability to replace lost squads with vet/upgraded squads to reestablish map control

-Smoke is good for obvious reasons

-The capture territory ability can help you come back from being pushed off the field.

Geez. People, will you stop with the "yeah but M5" stuff? That's for a different topic.

Love aaa , or hate him, it doesn't change the fact that when an allied player techs, he/she will be 1 unit behind Ostheer, who have the same tech level.

Geez. People, will you stop with the "yeah but M5" stuff? That's for a different topic.

Love aaa , or hate him, it doesn't change the fact that when an allied player techs, he/she will be 1 unit behind Ostheer, who have the same tech level.

I think the point of Ostheer having +1 unit is that they rely heavily on support weapons early game to make up for the fact that Grens are quite fragile and can be forced off the field without support.

There is an argument to be made that Allies need better weapons to counter support weapon play, but in my experience USF is at a disadvantage in the early game (but well that's just in general because of the stiff USF meta) but Soviets still can pull off strong openings.