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tofu :- Pheenyx;USFMain86;Steel;rush;Fearless Stalker;tanju

1 Aug 2015, 13:58 PM
#21
avatar of steel

Posts: 1963 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Aug 2015, 07:04 AMtofu


To answer your question about 222,I'll explain my "map control" strategy a bit.

This tactics consists of three simple principles.

1.Attack is easier than defense.
2.Vehicles are faster than AT guns.
3.Larger amounts of units gain a victory.

The same as other RTS games,Company of Heroes 2 become easier when you attack and more difficult when you defend.This is because you can attack at any point you want to,but can't defend all points you want to.So,if you are able to search weak points,your attack will end in massive victory.

To search weakness,recon units are highly recommended.This units tend to be light vehicles like 222 "SCOUT" car.these units are needed to move faster than infantry because they are often needed to run away from enemy infantry and because they have to move around the map to get enemy's movements.

When you find enemy's weak point,just attack there with larger amount of units than the opponent which defends its position.
I said "infantry-kill tanks" are recommended before,and this is becase if you have it,you don't need to wait other units to attack.Furthermore,Multi purpose unit of recon and infantry-kill play
s ideal role.It can shift its role from search to destroy without any timelag.

If this strategy works well,your opponent must stick together their units.(if not,he will lost unit one by one.)And that means you can get map control.Except for enemy's blobbing spot,you capture all territories and thus your income will greater.

From this point of view,Company of Heroes 2 is a game of taking map control.So,fastest 222 is recommended to get map control and fastest M5 is also recommended to take (back) map control.

How about Puma? I think Puma is designed to kill map control unit such as M5 and T-70.Although Puma itself can't take map control,it prevent M5/T-70 from taking map control.
And if you have 222 with Puma,this tactics will works a bit again.
After all,Combined arms are important especially in Axis.


So,as for second replay,you know when you should get T3 now.And I was surprised to see your conscripts played well.Now you know aggresive attack will take map control,too.This is because your opponent tend to use all its units to defend from your successive strikes.
In fact,sometimes you will see you don't need M3/M5/T-70 to get map control.Marshal of Soviet Union knows oorah conscript squads meet two-thirds of principles above.

At last,the timing of getting hospital is a good question.If you wanto to get map control with your conscripts,it should be after your taking map control.(generally,you can make health after deploying 4 or 5 conscript squads.)
And if you build T2 it's more likely to be late.One maxim (and sometimes one motar) should be faster than health at least.
Thanks. I just tried out your tips in a 2v2 with my AT partner as Soviet and it really helped a lot. The game feels way easier since I play with a different mindset regarding the light vehicles. I'll try to play more matches as soon as I can. :)
2 Aug 2015, 03:09 AM
#22
avatar of tofu

Posts: 89 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Aug 2015, 13:58 PMsteel
Thanks. I just tried out your tips in a 2v2 with my AT partner as Soviet and it really helped a lot. The game feels way easier since I play with a different mindset regarding the light vehicles. I'll try to play more matches as soon as I can. :)


I'm glad to hear that.You learn so quickly :)

As you can see,my strategy will work more on 2v2.
3 Aug 2015, 17:43 PM
#23
avatar of USFMain86

Posts: 27

Got my next replay up if i can get help posting it again.Tofu's first game comment has really helpd me allready.focusing on bar rifle blob and going for targets of opportunity with my stuart instead of running it into combat immediately without vision as soon as i get it.
3 Aug 2015, 18:45 PM
#24
avatar of MajorBloodnok
Admin Red  Badge
Patrion 314

Posts: 10665 | Subs: 9

4 Aug 2015, 08:25 AM
#25
avatar of tofu

Posts: 89 | Subs: 1

Got my next replay up if i can get help posting it again.Tofu's first game comment has really helpd me allready.focusing on bar rifle blob and going for targets of opportunity with my stuart instead of running it into combat immediately without vision as soon as i get it.


gg!

Overall,you become better even though there are still lots of things to improve.

Your first order (rear echelon - rifle - rifle - WC51) is quite a good idea especially in wide map like this.And you know this doctrine's artillery is valid at the late game on this map because OKW tend to build it's Schwerer HQ at the frontline.

Protected WC51 by Captain and fast Stuarts are good,too.Two Stuarts are creative thinking.It lasts your offensive for about 10 minutes,which are enough to make the game decisive.

However,there are two things I have to point out.

First,you can upgrade your weapons more earlier.If you take Bar while making Captain,the game will be more comfortable for you.Furthermore,this upgrade is more effective when many riflemen squads are deployed like you.(1 upgrade has an effect on all your riflemen)

Second,you are needed to deal with multi battlefield.You still spend too much time on one front.
I know you are micromanagement oriented player.Even so,some improvement should be done.I'll give an example Joris and Crazyman as a top-class micromanagement oriented player,they usually use only 3 seconds per front.In a few seconds,they consider the situation,decide the best way to act,and switch thier display at the next battlefront.

Other than previous advice for multi task,I can recommend you below.

  • Using "attack move" is one solution for prevention unit loss.
    If you use right clik to move somewhere,your units WILL move there even if KingTiger is nearby.
    But when you use "attack move", your units stop at the edge of their maximan range from KingTiger so your units are less likely to die.
    *I think you can use a hotkey to use "attack move".It will save your time than pressing it by mouse.

  • Moving your unit from cover to cover is another good solution.
    As you know,units in garrison receive less damage.So it's less like to die even if your patrol is late.Moving to shortest garrison is recommended to reduce danger.
    *Combined above two tips will help you more.


Anyway,using only 1 unit,concentrating on 1 front will face problems someday.
So I hope you pay more attention to move squads simultaneously.
4 Aug 2015, 08:36 AM
#26
avatar of tofu

Posts: 89 | Subs: 1

And you can insert your replay to clik red star mark which you can see right above when you make reply.

Or just write below.

[replay]*****[/replay]

(***** means your five digits replay number.You can find your number when you check your replay's URL of COH2.ORG)
6 Aug 2015, 09:26 AM
#27
avatar of steel

Posts: 1963 | Subs: 1

Here's my first loss in a while.



I think I should have planted the tellermine earlier. ;)
7 Aug 2015, 03:39 AM
#28
avatar of tofu

Posts: 89 | Subs: 1

It was gg.You almost won.

If you producted some units while you were in battle at early time,you may gain victory.

Of course tellermine is important,but I think your build order can be better,too.

Wehrmacht often needs mortar,especially if enemy has a lot of infantry instead of fastest M5.And you should have 2 Pak 40,not producing Panzergrenadier squad.

Below is recommend build order against Soviet.

  • Grenadier - Grenadier - Grenadier - Grenadier - MG42 - Mortar(if necessary) - T2 - Pak - Pak

You can build health bunker before T2.
222 is also recommended if you are faced with Soviet T2 spam.

Deploying Puma was a good idea.It will sink M5 easily.And if you pick Mobile Defense Doctrine,you don't need to upgrade to T3 because you have P4 Command Tank.This is a good aspect of Mobile Defense Doc.

In fact,1 Puma,1 P4 Command Tank, and 2 Paks are enough to kill IS2.2 Paks are also enough to beat SU-76.
7 Aug 2015, 05:28 AM
#29
avatar of steel

Posts: 1963 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Aug 2015, 03:39 AMtofu
So a mortar would help me more than a panzergrenadier. I will keep that in mind for my next games. I suppose against heavy T2, the 222 would be driving around looking for MGs because the AT guns would just kill them. How good is the Command Tank? I haven't really used it myself.
7 Aug 2015, 07:28 AM
#30
avatar of tofu

Posts: 89 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Aug 2015, 05:28 AMsteel
So a mortar would help me more than a panzergrenadier. I will keep that in mind for my next games. I suppose against heavy T2, the 222 would be driving around looking for MGs because the AT guns would just kill them. How good is the Command Tank? I haven't really used it myself.


I think mortar is the best weapon team in COH2.Its auto shot make your opponent busy in rearranement.A notable point is that you don't need to use your time to barrage and your enemy have to use.

As for 222,you are right.222 has light armor so it has to avoid AT guns.I hope you remember my "map control" strategy :) 222 is faster than AT guns.

A good point of Command Tank is that it doesn't need T3 base.In this patch,you often feel hard to deploy P4 because you are requested to put into more fuel for T3 base.

Moreover,its effect aganst infantry is the same as P4.It's also effective against light vehicle such as M5/T-70.

Furthermore,it strengthen your infantry around so grenadiers are much stronger than conscripts.

A bad point of Command Tank is that it can deploy only 1 unit at a time.And it's not so effective against Medium Tanks like T34/76 then it is needed to accompany Paks.I hadn't used Command Tank before but now I'm loving it.
7 Aug 2015, 10:52 AM
#31
avatar of tofu

Posts: 89 | Subs: 1

To Mr.rush.

Welcome!I'm glad to help you.

To know how to do,please see the first post of this thread and give me some information.

7 Aug 2015, 12:35 PM
#32
avatar of rush

Posts: 341

1)Steam ID 76561198130192725

2)never really played any fps games,only casually ,ive played many rpgs though, 500 hours in skyrim .As for rts games ive played AoE red alert 2 and c&c generals and a couple of others more.

3)i use hotkeys for everything , i rarely click on abilities and use control groups for micro intensive units such as snipers at guns and pios/engies.

4)I play about 3-4 hours a day , i spend most of this time watching live games and not actually playing.

5)i'd like to learn to play all factions, my main focus is on 1vs 1 though.

6)i think my main problem is knowing when to be aggressive and when to take it easy.

7)my goal for this program is getting in top 200 for all factions XD

I dont have any replays of myself atm but i will upload one when i play.

Thanks for the late approval.
7 Aug 2015, 15:27 PM
#33
avatar of tofu

Posts: 89 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Aug 2015, 12:35 PMrush
1)Steam ID 76561198130192725

2)never really played any fps games,only casually ,ive played many rpgs though, 500 hours in skyrim .As for rts games ive played AoE red alert 2 and c&c generals and a couple of others more.

3)i use hotkeys for everything , i rarely click on abilities and use control groups for micro intensive units such as snipers at guns and pios/engies.

4)I play about 3-4 hours a day , i spend most of this time watching live games and not actually playing.

5)i'd like to learn to play all factions, my main focus is on 1vs 1 though.

6)i think my main problem is knowing when to be aggressive and when to take it easy.

7)my goal for this program is getting in top 200 for all factions XD

I dont have any replays of myself atm but i will upload one when i play.

Thanks for the late approval.


OK,I add you on steam so please recieve it.
Using hotkeys give an advantage of your micromanagement.It surely help you :D
And I'm surprised you are keen in spectating.That will help you,too.

In fact,spectating games give you imagination about anything;I mean build order,counter unit,flow of the game,meta,anything.

You said you are in trouble over the timing of attack and defense,but you can copy any top10 players who you watch on livegames.

Let's imagine your favorite player playing instead of you,and please give me replay of that game:)
7 Aug 2015, 18:23 PM
#34
avatar of rush

Posts: 341

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Aug 2015, 15:27 PMtofu


OK,I add you on steam so please recieve it.
Using hotkeys give an advantage of your micromanagement.It surely help you :D
And I'm surprised you are keen in spectating.That will help you,too.

In fact,spectating games give you imagination about anything;I mean build order,counter unit,flow of the game,meta,anything.

You said you are in trouble over the timing of attack and defense,but you can copy any top10 players who you watch on livegames.

Let's imagine your favorite player playing instead of you,and please give me replay of that game:)


i have 1300 hours in game with at least 700 hours of watching games XD (i also have all steam achievements for coh2 so that took a long tie as well), i have learned a lot especially build orders and mine placement positions from replays but almost all top players can adapt according to each game , i cant do that so i try and focus more on a generalist build that can counter any faction on any map.
one thing i also suck at is anticipating my opponent's moves , i see players anticipating retreat pathes mine placements and build orders all the time.
My favorite player is BartonPL, but i find his style super hard to copy and no one else can copy him.
you can find replays of Barton in here http://www.coh2.org/user/233/bartonpl#here i only watch 1v1s though.
EDIT: i found one of my replays and uploaded it http://www.coh2.org/replay/38088/training-replay-n1
8 Aug 2015, 06:09 AM
#35
avatar of tofu

Posts: 89 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Aug 2015, 18:23 PMrush


i have 1300 hours in game with at least 700 hours of watching games XD (i also have all steam achievements for coh2 so that took a long tie as well), i have learned a lot especially build orders and mine placement positions from replays but almost all top players can adapt according to each game , i cant do that so i try and focus more on a generalist build that can counter any faction on any map.
one thing i also suck at is anticipating my opponent's moves , i see players anticipating retreat pathes mine placements and build orders all the time.
My favorite player is BartonPL, but i find his style super hard to copy and no one else can copy him.
you can find replays of Barton in here http://www.coh2.org/user/233/bartonpl#here i only watch 1v1s though.
EDIT: i found one of my replays and uploaded it http://www.coh2.org/replay/38088/training-replay-n1


Using a build order that deals with any opponent is a good idea especially when one has trouble in anticipating enemy's movements. Some of my Japanese mentees use generic order and it works well.

I can't watch Barton's 1v1 replays because of the latest patch so I can't understand his build order.
But I can watch your replay (gg!) and below is my suggestion.

There are many things to improve,but the most important one is that you had to use combined arms.
I often see you moved grenadier/panzer grenadier squads to the frontline, though your MG42 was on vacation.

Units which aren't fighting equal idlers.I know some people put their MGs behind fuel points,but it's almost meaningless, because there are plenty of ways to counter it.Flanking,smoking,and any vehicles can take the position.

Instead of that,you can attach your MG to grenadier squads.If you have 3 or 4 grenadier squads with 1 MG,you will win almost all battles at the beginning.So you can break through any enemy's line.Let's attack the most important point for your opponent and cut their MP!

And you have to keep in mind that Wehrmacht needs a Pak40 faster than you think.In fact,sometimes
even the fastest Pak40 is too late for fastest M20(or 6 minutes M5).
As you can imagine,you have to attach a Pak 40 to your main force,not making them idle.

This is combined arms.Grenadier squads with MG and Pak are a firm force.If you add mortar,your army becomes stronger.When you have these combined arms,you can easily break the line like this.

  • Grenadiers... shoot at the long range with green/yellow cover.LMG is also recommended.
  • MG... set behind grenadier squads,and shoot enemy's frontline to suppress them.
  • Pak... go with grenadiers squads,and attack enemy's vehicles if they are there.
  • Mortar... set behind MG,and shoot enemy's weapon teams such as MG.


If you have tanks,you can attract enemy's attention to your tanks and your infantry are less likely to receive damage.More so when you deploy Command Tank.

Once again,to attack enemy's significant territory and cut their resource (especially MP) is the key point.Please try this.
8 Aug 2015, 08:33 AM
#36
8 Aug 2015, 10:38 AM
#37
avatar of tofu

Posts: 89 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Aug 2015, 08:33 AMrush
http://www.coh2.org/replay/38095/training-replay-n2


gg!

When you match against higher rank player,it's a good chance to learn to play.
In fact,these high rank player tells you a lot even though they don't write anything.

I think you are good.You tried to use combined arms,your decision to make mortar against Soviet's T2 units is good,too.And your decision to call Puma is quite a good idea.

But that was all.Your opponent were better to use units and that means even if he fought against anti unit,his maneuver overwhelmed the relationship between two units.

So,what can you do?

I believe that piling up improvment is the only way to reach higher.
Every top player,including Barton,was once a newbie.(I was once a super noob)
And they didn't become strong suddenly.They bocame strong gradually.

Some point out are below.You may think these are little things,but these are really worth to do.
  • Grenadier spam can deal with more various situations than making MG at first.
    I think making 4 Grenadier squads before MG is better than making MG before first Grenadier.
    Two Grenadier squads can keep away from Conscript squad and 3 Grenadier squads can force Conscript with green cover out,and flank maxim.4 Grenadier squads can smash Conscripts blob.

    On the other hand,MG may supress Conscripts,but it may also be flanked by another Conscripts,supressed by maxim,shot by mortar.

  • You should watch your mortar carefully if you want to use it effectively.
    Mortar is much depend on RNG,this means the more you shoot,the more you get a chance to hit.
    So,you have to avoid retreating.It should be covered by MG.


I'm looking forward to watching next replay :) GL!
11 Aug 2015, 22:04 PM
#38
avatar of rush

Posts: 341

http://www.coh2.org/replay/38273/loss-as-usf-vs-a-noob
i lost vs a player who only knows to move his entire army together, he does not know what the word flank means he just kept spamming paks.
12 Aug 2015, 08:04 AM
#39
avatar of tofu

Posts: 89 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Aug 2015, 22:04 PMrush
http://www.coh2.org/replay/38273/loss-as-usf-vs-a-noob
i lost vs a player who only knows to move his entire army together, he does not know what the word flank means he just kept spamming paks.


Before adding some comments,I have to say that you don't need to insult your opponents,especially when you lost.

Regarding your enemy as an noob is an easy way to cloud the reson you lose,but it's totally meaningless in 1v1.People lose because they are worse than their opponents,not because their enemyies are full-meta noob using blob tactics.

I don't intend to harm you,but I hope you focus on winning rather than express your oppoents.
I have good hope that you will better so please face yourself.It's an essential skill to survive .

And I can't understand why you dropped the game.You still had possibility of victory so this mean you may miss one victory.Never surrender even though you feel yourself defeated.You can surrender only if there is no possibility of miracles.
(Please note you can be better and that's why I mentioned above.)

OK,then some suggestions are below.

Overall,your tactics was good.I think fastest Stuart was a brilliant.And your grenade upgrade was another nice one though it was a bit late.In fact,you are almost winning.

The only one disappointing thing was your army was defeated one by one.You move your Sherman to enemy territory,and then move your riflemen squads to enemy territory,and then... this won't work at all.

If you move them together at the same time,it will work well because your army was better than its counterpart.You may think it's difficult to operate all of your units at the same time,but if so,you can stick them together.It's worse than flanking but it's better than leave units at the rear.
Another suggestion is that you can upgrade bazooka to fight against StugE(and G).

FYI,I leave some video at my Twitch channel.(http://www.twitch.tv/tofu_jp)
This stream was for tests and I didn't speak in English, but it might help you.
12 Aug 2015, 08:56 AM
#40
avatar of rush

Posts: 341

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Aug 2015, 08:04 AMtofu


Before adding some comments,I have to say that you don't need to insult your opponents,especially when you lost.

Regarding your enemy as an noob is an easy way to cloud the reson you lose,but it's totally meaningless in 1v1.People lose because they are worse than their opponents,not because their enemyies are full-meta noob using blob tactics.

I don't intend to harm you,but I hope you focus on winning rather than express your oppoents.
I have good hope that you will better so please face yourself.It's an essential skill to survive .

And I can't understand why you dropped the game.You still had possibility of victory so this mean you may miss one victory.Never surrender even though you feel yourself defeated.You can surrender only if there is no possibility of miracles.
(Please note you can be better and that's why I mentioned above.)

OK,then some suggestions are below.

Overall,your tactics was good.I think fastest Stuart was a brilliant.And your grenade upgrade was another nice one though it was a bit late.In fact,you are almost winning.

The only one disappointing thing was your army was defeated one by one.You move your Sherman to enemy territory,and then move your riflemen squads to enemy territory,and then... this won't work at all.

If you move them together at the same time,it will work well because your army was better than its counterpart.You may think it's difficult to operate all of your units at the same time,but if so,you can stick them together.It's worse than flanking but it's better than leave units at the rear.
Another suggestion is that you can upgrade bazooka to fight against StugE(and G).

FYI,I leave some video at my Twitch channel.(http://www.twitch.tv/tofu_jp)
This stream was for tests and I didn't speak in English, but it might help you.



I don't mind losing when being outplayed but i do mind losing when having played better than my opponent i never complained about blobs , but when my at guns never penetrates it sux and when i can't deal with ostheer turtling because i have no mortar it's not my fault .
Anw im always playing flame rifle blob now as usf it's the only way to win it seems.
thanks for the comments and the tips XD.
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