Take out Tiger Ace... It's a total cop out

800 mp, 300 fuel and a totally crashed economy, you might as well delete the tiger ace from the doctrine all together then, which I would prefer if I am totally honest.

800mp and 300 fuel, to give it back its original stats with 0.5 damage reduction from all hits, basically it giving 2X the normal HP

800mp and 300 fuel, to give it back its original stats with 0.5 damage reduction from all hits, basically it giving 2X the normal HP

Or 640MP 300 fuel, remove or reduce the resource penalty and call it even-stevens?

800mp and 300 fuel, to give it back its original stats with 0.5 damage reduction from all hits, basically it giving 2X the normal HP

Remove it then, would never want to see that Tiger Ace ever again.

Just give it a fuel cost, like 270. And remove penalty.

The biggest problem for me isn't the absurd power of the tank. (it is quite beatable) It is you dont see it coming. There is no clear indictaion on what is coming as the OST player may perfectly skip using any other ability of the commander. If there was a sigh of the opponent picking the acetiger commander, you could say : "uh oh, there will be a time around the 14 commander point tick where i should seriously invest into heavy AT stuff, so when i ll see the famous time where things seems easier, i'll know he is gathering thoses 800MP and shit is coming".
Tracking ennemy ressources is particulary difficult :/
Maybe add a warning? example : you callin the tiger and a 'Commander! An Ace Tiger is on the way here" is played for every player, you wait 20 secondes (ok guys lets gather) and the beast makes his entrance.
But still, nothing prevent you from picking the commander at the last moment.
The unit in itself is "fair", big shock unit, huge price, ressources cut. The drawbacks are so heavy it justify its power. But not its impact.
"Well it escalated quickly!"

Well if he is giving up using any of the other abilities to get surprise when he calls it in the Tiger Ace won't come until way after any other doctrine would have shown it's hand so arguably its no surprise at all by that point.

He also abandoning any early leverage from the early abilities


In practice however Tiger Ace players seem surprisingly willing to use those crappy unique stun grenades...

Think about it. Two players are expending fuel to build tanks and the Ost player pulls a tank out of nowhere with just manpower. Bit ridiculous.

Well if he is giving up using any of the other abilities to get surprise when he calls it in the Tiger Ace won't come until way after any other doctrine would have shown it's hand so arguably its no surprise at all by that point.

He also abandoning any early leverage from the early abilities


In practice however Tiger Ace players seem surprisingly willing to use those crappy unique stun grenades...

The stun grenades are better than you think. They absolutely devastate infantry inside building and arguably do more damage than rifle nades.

The stun grenades are better than you think. They absolutely devastate infantry inside building and arguably do more damage than rifle nades.

The stun grenade in combo with another grenade can guarantee wipes on squads. Use two squads one throwing the Stun the other the regular grenade, retreating units right now still must wait for the stun to wear off and a bug sometimes cancels their retreat.

The Tiger Ace as a unit is fundamentally broken for COH2, vet is earned not given (excusing Elite and to some degree Rifle company). However, it is currently neutered to near the point of troll unit because of the income penalties. Removing it seems unlikely, it should probably cost fuel and not cut off your fuel income.

They should add fuel but the reality is the ace isn't as great as people think. Try playing sigh it a few times and see if it's instant win. It's not and I haven't kept it in my roster for quite some time. The Ace is slow, it's turret is slow in rotating. It comes super late so using your commander's superior help that came much earlier you should have the advantage in resources, armor and AT. Lay mines down along major paths so when it comes if you aren't in a position to take it down you can make a soft retreat back through mines. If mines don't work, remember the TA is slow so just hold the VP's where he isn't and you have 2 of 3. Finally while TA is out, kill infantry at every opportunity as the MP reinforcement cost with the Ace drain will cripple his supporting troops.

I agreee, by the time the ace comes out, generally speaking, the momentum of the game is already sliding in one direction. Also if the allies are aware that you are using the commander it will give them all game to get ready to counter it. Also it's so f*cking slow, in games with good players it won't make as big a difference as a game with poor players. Like luvnest saved his game with a tiger ace I have as well but the opponent wasn't that good.

The stun grenades are better than you think. They absolutely devastate infantry inside building and arguably do more damage than rifle nades.

Not only that, but you missed their true calling.

If you get caught getting out of a building and the stun grenades go off, there is a bug which the unit inside dies

I dont know why people think the stun grenades are so bad. We all know those moments where it seems like the mg is going to limp away with a man. Tossing a stun grenade while they pack up practically guarantees their death. You can use these everywhere to finish off weapons teams or stop shocks/rangers from pushing you back to your spawn.

I would of honestly loved to see these grenades in other commanders

No, its not unfair. Learn to play, Tiger ace comes really late and you have time to prepare. Stop whining.