Soviet T3 need cost increase or Ost T3 cost reduction!

The thing is that you CAN go guards/T2 to counter the light vehicles but Ostheer is artificially stuck with nothing to counter the enemy because they won't be able to get a Pak in time due to the way the teching system works.

Nobody is asking for T3 to be massively delayed, just that Ostheer gets better counters earlier or T3 is just slightly delayed so Soviets can't exploit an artificial gap in Ostheers teching system. Add in the fact in 2's we will be seeing extremely early Stuarts and Axis early game becomes quite challenging.

Just add a high fuel cost to T3 and then subtract that additional cost from the price of T4. Also to give Soviets some extra fuel merge the AT and molotov grenade upgrades

What happens if I go T1 as Soviets though and get hit by a 7 minute FlakHT? And ostheer can 100% get a PaK before an M5 with quad upgrade hits the field, please stop being so dramatic, I've done it. Ostheer have always been able to get one before an M15 arrives and they can now, nothings changed. Only difference now is they have to decide whether they want to go heavier T2 (2x PaKs/PG Shrecks) to counter T3 or continue teching to Ostheer T3.

What happens if I go T1 as Soviets though and get hit by a 7 minute FlakHT? And ostheer can 100% get a PaK before an M5 with quad upgrade hits the field, please stop being so dramatic, I've done it. Ostheer have always been able to get one before an M15 arrives and they can now, nothings changed. Only difference now is they have to decide whether they want to go heavier T2 (2x PaKs/PG Shrecks) to counter T3 or continue teching to Ostheer T3.

You can counter a 7 minute flak with a 7 minute quad. Or, you could wait one and a half minute and counter it with a 8 minute SU76.

You can counter a 7 minute flak with a 7 minute quad. Or, you could wait one and a half minute and counter it with a 8 minute SU76.

Only a Puma will be way harder for zhe soviets

Maybe players haven't adapted yet to the new playstyle.

And it is true if the Sovs gets a bunch of caches and rushes T3 it is out at 7:00.
Because they know these particular OST players regular 2v2 build is many times a very heavy T-1 build that can very well skip T-2 and hold out waiting for T-3.
And rushing T-3 would for sovs be the perfect counter for a heavy T-1 build.
Maybe, just maybe this isn't as much of a balance issue as it is play and counterplay. And adapting to what your enemy is doing`?

You can counter a 7 minute flak with a 7 minute quad. Or, you could wait one and a half minute and counter it with a 8 minute SU76.

And you can counter 7 minute quad with 5 minute puma.

Where is the problem again?

OKW will have to use puppchens or pumas and ost will have to get PaK 3 minutes earlier. World is doomed. DOOMED I say.

Stop thinking current rush to heavy/medium meta people. Its about to die, so you might just as well say your goodbye to it.

You people need to stop acting like you're having a diarrhea and P4 is going to bring you the potty.

A revelation is about to shine upon you:

It was ALWAYS the intended playstyle for wehr.
Slow creep with weapon teams taking sector by sector instead of wide spread soviet aggression.

Ost players will have to adapt to their intended army flow! Oh the dread and tragedy!

Its bad faction design when a faction is forced into turtling.

Maybe players haven't adapted yet to the new playstyle.

And it is true if the Sovs gets a bunch of caches and rushes T3 it is out at 7:00.
Because they know these particular OST players regular 2v2 build is many times a very heavy T-1 build that can very well skip T-2 and hold out waiting for T-3.
And rushing T-3 would for sovs be the perfect counter for a heavy T-1 build.
Maybe, just maybe this isn't as much of a balance issue as it is play and counterplay. And adapting to what your enemy is doing`?

Somenbjorn if you've seen games of me and Aerohank together you have to know for sure that our army composition is not a problem and that we have our Paks ready for rumble, but that doesn't help against the flexibility of a M5, since it's 90% of the time long gone before the pak is in position.

Somenbjorn if you've seen games of me and Aerohank together you have to know for sure that our army composition is not a problem and that we have our Paks ready for rumble, but that doesn't help against the flexibility of a M5, since it's 90% of the time long gone before the pak is in position.

You don't happen to have that replay of you and Aero vs. Choccy and Redbear from saturday saved do you?

Its bad faction design when a faction is forced into turtling.

Except its not coh1 brits turtling.

Its MG42 creep, which is proven to be a working design since release of vcoh, because it was exactly the same there.

With MG positioning you still can dictate the flow of battle and force opponents to adapt with counters.

You just can't be aggressive too much or you'll overextend and get flanked.

This concept works for more then 7 years now and no one complained.

I'm just trying to localize the problem analyzing same situations in current balance state.

What about current Soviet T1 vs any light vehicles (for example OKW Flak HT)?

How do you solve light vehicle problem with T1?
- Downtech to T2 to get AT guns (because Flak HT suppresses PTRS squads, just like new M17 do with schreks).

Does it have same "problems" right now as Ost in upcoming patch?
- Yes.

Is T1 opening viable?
- Yes.

Do Ost have to deal with USF AA HT (which suppress too and able to deal with 222 just fine)?
- Yes.

So what's the problem with Ost in upcoming patch?
- Dunno.

Does OKW have same "problems"?
- No.

Why nerf M17 back to shit state if it was only recently pulled out of shit and only one faction MAY need to prepare AT guns earlier?

And again, why current Soviet T2->call-ins is viable, but in upcoming patch Ost T2->T3 is not?
T2->call-ins does not have so-called "mobile" answer to light vehicles until 8 CP at best, so, I guess you never see T-34-85/IS-2, because of "snowball" effect of losing map control to light vehicles?

Patch was targeting on prolonging time frame where light vehicles are viable. Now people ask here to shrink it.

+1 ElSlayer
I couldn't have said it better.

And you can counter 7 minute quad with 5 minute puma.

Where is the problem again?

OKW will have to use puppchens or pumas and ost will have to get PaK 3 minutes earlier. World is doomed. DOOMED I say.

Stop thinking current rush to heavy/medium meta people. Its about to die, so you might just as well say your goodbye to it.

You people need to stop acting like you're having a diarrhea and P4 is going to bring you the potty.

There is no such thing as a 5 minute Puma.

I'm just trying to localize the problem analyzing same situations in current balance state.

What about current Soviet T1 vs any light vehicles (for example OKW Flak HT)?

How do you solve light vehicle problem with T1?
- Downtech to T2 to get AT guns (because Flak HT suppresses PTRS squads, just like new M17 do with schreks).

Does it have same "problems" right now as Ost in upcoming patch?
- Yes.

Is T1 opening viable?
- Yes.

Do Ost have to deal with USF AA HT (which suppress too and able to deal with 222 just fine)?
- Yes.

So what's the problem with Ost in upcoming patch?
- Dunno.

Does OKW have same "problems"?
- No.

Why nerf M17 back to shit state if it was only recently pulled out of shit and only one faction MAY need to prepare AT guns earlier?

And again, why current Soviet T2->call-ins is viable, but in upcoming patch Ost T2->T3 is not?
T2->call-ins does not have so-called "mobile" answer to light vehicles until 8 CP at best, so, I guess you never see T-34-85/IS-2, because of "snowball" effect of losing map control to light vehicles?

Patch was targeting on prolonging time frame where light vehicles are viable. Now people ask here to shrink it.

It comes too early and because of that T3 units don't have any shock-value left. Then it's GGWP, since you can't do shit anymore.

I'm just trying to localize the problem analyzing same situations in current balance state.

What about current Soviet T1 vs any light vehicles (for example OKW Flak HT)?

How do you solve light vehicle problem with T1?
- Downtech to T2 to get AT guns (because Flak HT suppresses PTRS squads, just like new M17 do with schreks).

Does it have same "problems" right now as Ost in upcoming patch?
- Yes.

Is T1 opening viable?
- Yes.

Do Ost have to deal with USF AA HT (which suppress too and able to deal with 222 just fine)?
- Yes.

So what's the problem with Ost in upcoming patch?
- Dunno.

Does OKW have same "problems"?
- No.

Why nerf M17 back to shit state if it was only recently pulled out of shit and only one faction MAY need to prepare AT guns earlier?

And again, why current Soviet T2->call-ins is viable, but in upcoming patch Ost T2->T3 is not?
T2->call-ins does not have so-called "mobile" answer to light vehicles until 8 CP at best, so, I guess you never see T-34-85/IS-2, because of "snowball" effect of losing map control to light vehicles?

Patch was targeting on prolonging time frame where light vehicles are viable. Now people ask here to shrink it.

/THREAD.

There is no such thing as a 5 minute Puma.

OKW should have average income of 70/5=14 fuel per minute.
Quite real, especially if you count in muni->fuel conversion.

I'm not stubborn and want yolo Pz4's I want to have some fair time between the units, not to see already hard counters, before I get my 1st Pz4 on the field

It comes too early and because of that T3 units don't have any shock-value left. Then it's GGWP, since you can't do shit anymore.

Well, I guess Relic should buff T-34 stats, because it comes too late (answers are already on the battlefield) and don't have any shock-value left?

Well, I guess Relic should buff T-34 stats, because it comes too late (answers are already on the battlefield) and don't have any shock-value left?

The T34/76 should be buffed, since it's one of the crappiest tanks in the game. If not the crappiest.

The T34/76 should be buffed, since it's one of the crappiest tanks in the game. If not the crappiest.

I was joking. I don't think it should be buffed, because now it is extremely spammable.

OKW should have average income of 70/5=14 fuel per minute.
Quite real, especially if you count in muni->fuel conversion.

Maybe in theory crafting world but no sane OKW player converts his first truck literally at the start of the game and establishs average map control after that. 5 minute Puma is quite rare and hard to pull off a 7 minute m5 or stuart in the new patch is very much a reality

I was joking. I don't think it should be buffed, because now it is extremely spammable.

I forgot that they had a fuel decrease.