Balance Data Since The Patch

That's weird you must not play that much, I'm seeing lend lease and and isu152 a whole lot more now. T3 is becoming a bit more popular as well. SU-76 is in a lot of matches too. Lay off the generalizations, it comes off as bias.

Yeah, USF has some issues right now. OKW in 1v1 is still struggling.

But if you honestly think that completely redesigning the game based on 3 weeks of scarce alpha gameplay (plz remember it took about an hour to find a match most days) is the magic answer I don't know what to tell you

Almost every single game me and my clan has played lately at least 1 or more players on the opposing team went guard motor. Yes we see less heavy spam which is good, but medium call in spam is just as cancerous.

The reason it's aggravating is because admitting call in spam is shit from ass by capping heavies but then refusing to do the same for the rest of call in tanks just means that you have forced every player who wants to win down to essentially a small handful of strats.

OKW is struggling in more than 1v1. Right now OKW's win rate is just artificially inflated by Ostheer being top dog.

why is it cancerous when its so much easier to deal with than pure heavy spam

Can confirm, lend lease is slowly becoming the shit with T1/T2 to T4.

Yeah the meat grinder being top tier and Dhsk finally not being complete ass (with a small buff to assault guards to boot) has made Lend Lease very fun.

But Iv still only seen it in a handful of matches since it has no elite infantry or 120's and people refuse to let go of their safety blanket.

Can confirm, lend lease is slowly becoming the shit with T1/T2 to T4.

Agreed, skipping 3 for the Soviet HT and having the M4C as a generalist tank is nice af.

I'm specifically referring to the kubel replay you no doubt remember. That was a bit over the top no?

It probably was, but at that point I was so fed up that I stopped playing for like a week. I have had outbursts like that(though none as bad as the one against brad, I was especially cross with him because he was actually responsible for the bad balance) a few times now but they don't come out of the blue. When you face the same broken stuff over, and over, and over again, frustration builds. I don't BM every (pre patch) rifle flamer spammer, Mech assault abuser or guard motor spammer I face. But when I face them 15 times in a row, one unlucky sod is probably going to receive my bottled up frustration. One time it was brad, one time it was you. I have a strong passion for this game and strong opinions of how it should be balanced. I won't excuse myself for that.

why is it cancerous when its so much easier to deal with than pure heavy spam

Because call in's reward shitty play. I don't like the reward for my team coordinating a lock down on 2/3rd's of the map to be a flood of T34/85's and Easy Eights. The fact that I'm forced to tech to get access to my stuff (and thus invest which comes with risk) is just annoying.

Nobody has ever said call in spam was impossible to beat, but plenty of people hate the fact that it rewards bad play and people love to use it as an excuse to justify Soviets having mediocre stock units.

Low rank players in most cases don't have balance problems but learn to play issues.
In those cases not the game is problem, but the person in front of the monitor, thus you can't balance the game for them, because even if a unit is perfectly fine, they will still cry that its UP, because they dont know how to use it.

there's a difference between balancing for low level players and listening to bad players who whine on the forums. Making units easier to use or less punishing helps new players more easily get into the game and doesn't take listening to every noob who just started playing the game.

Almost every single game me and my clan has played lately at least 1 or more players on the opposing team went guard motor. Yes we see less heavy spam which is good, but medium call in spam is just as cancerous.

The reason it's aggravating is because admitting call in spam is shit from ass by capping heavies but then refusing to do the same for the rest of call in tanks just means that you have forced every player who wants to win down to essentially a small handful of strats.

OKW is struggling in more than 1v1. Right now OKW's win rate is just artificially inflated by Ostheer being top dog.

You do realize there are other, more experienced players with different play-styles who still pull out wins on a regular basis right? You and your clan don't speak for the entire community. One person that comes to mind is RedWings, dude lives off of non-meta. There are plenty more who like to switch things up as well. Also, axis got considerable buffs against medium tank spam with the stug and raketen changes.

Can you actually back up that claim about OKW being Ostheer's side bitch or is that just an Alex-fact

there's a difference between balancing for low level players and listening to bad players who whine on the forums. Making units easier to use or less punishing helps new players more easily get into the game and doesn't take listening to every noob who just started playing the game.

OH GOD, finally a decent post.
You balance taking into account how a unit is meant to be working and proper use of tactis/strategy (use of cover, abilities, flanks, positioning, etc).
ALSO, you can make QOL changes or makes things easier to use or remove some micro taxes on certain units. Things that the average joe will appreciate.

You do realize there are other, more experienced players with different play-styles who still pull out wins on a regular basis right? You and your clan don't speak for the entire community. One person that comes to mind is RedWings, dude lives off of non-meta. There are plenty more who like to switch things up as well. Also, axis got considerable buffs against medium tank spam with the stug and raketen changes.

Can you actually back up that claim about OKW being Ostheer's side bitch or is that just an Alex-fact

In all the OP's stats it shows OKW being less played than Ostheer but having a similar win rate in 2v2+, I think you can add two and two together to see how that works out.

OKW right now is just in a weird place, the Stuka is more viable because it no longer takes forever and a year to vet up. But the Sturmtiger got made obsolete by the fact it can't blow up weapons anymore.

OKW early game is better than it has ever been, but OKW mid game suffers immensely from lack of MG counters and no medium generalist tank to bridge the gap between t1 or t2 and the Panther. Late game is still as good as it ever was, perhaps a bit less so with how inefficient the KT is for what it does.

ALSO, you can make QOL changes or makes things easier to use or remove some micro taxes on certain units. Things that the average joe will appreciate.

Exactly, MG facing in buildings is part of this.

It probably was, but at that point I was so fed up that I stopped playing for like a week. I have had outbursts like that(though none as bad as the one against brad, I was especially cross with him because he was actually responsible for the bad balance) a few times now but they don't come out of the blue. When you face the same broken stuff over, and over, and over again, frustration builds. I don't BM every (pre patch) rifle flamer spammer, Mech assault abuser or guard motor spammer I face. But when I face them 15 times in a row, one unlucky sod is probably going to receive my bottled up frustration. One time it was brad, one time it was you. I have a strong passion for this game and strong opinions of how it should be balanced. I won't excuse myself for that.

Fair enough, though I would just like to point out that AFAIK, Brad wasn't responsible for the balance of the kubel or anything that people got upset about, this is back when Peter did and was responsible for a lot of very very terrible changes to the game.

Because call in's reward shitty play. I don't like the reward for my team coordinating a lock down on 2/3rd's of the map to be a flood of T34/85's and Easy Eights. The fact that I'm forced to tech to get access to my stuff (and thus invest which comes with risk) is just annoying.

Nobody has ever said call in spam was impossible to beat, but plenty of people hate the fact that it rewards bad play and people love to use it as an excuse to justify Soviets having mediocre stock units.

yeah, and you need pretty bad play to lose to call ins when you have locked down 2/3rds of the map. like what the actual fuck? how do you not just take complete advantage of the enemies lack of teching and the time it takes for them to get their tanks in.

In all the OP's stats it shows OKW being less played than Ostheer but having a similar win rate in 2v2+, I think you can add two and two together to see how that works out.

Nah man try harder. Ostheer is in a better spot right now but OKW can definitely hold their own in team games

yeah, and you need pretty bad play to lose to call ins when you have locked down 2/3rds of the map. like what the actual fuck? how do you not just take complete advantage of the enemies lack of teching and the time it takes for them to get their tanks in.

It's not about losing, it's about being aggravating to play against. It prolongs matches that shouldn't be prolonged.

Like are you arguing that call in's are fine?

Well sure, this ship has sailed a long time ago. But it was on the agenda.

As for the the health of the game and the playerbase, top 10 or 15% maybe more like. But this is a false dichotomy to start with. Any competitive game will inevitably produce certain people who are more skilled than others, and those are the ones who drive the evolution of the game, represent the zenith of its gameplay and ultimately keep it alive, and yes, this is why they must take precedence.
Thats the nature of the beast if you will, an antagonistic multiplayer mode does not for a casual experience make.

Problem was always that the "asymmetrical balance" via different faction concept was taken too far for the sake of more "difference". Had they been able to pull it off they would have had a brilliant game on their hands. But if the factions were less different they would STILL be different but easier to balance. The lack of target tables makes that even harder.

In COH1 Wehr and US looked downright the same as compared to faction in COH2, but the small differences made them play very differently. At various levels each had ways "mids" could play that felt unbalanced to the other team, but even at the highest levels it was really close. This took a while to achieve but at least they had something a bit closer to work with than COH2.

Small differences in units, tier placement and teching made for HUGE differences in play style, arguably even more than the gained versus bought vet model. (Look at the huge difference in use of the mgs and mortars because of some small changes in their abilities and their placement in the tiers.)

But there should really be some balance ACROSS skill levels and game modes. If there isn't you will lose the multitudes that make the game possible (as in buying and endorsing) in the first place.

Fair enough, though I would just like to point out that AFAIK, Brad wasn't responsible for the balance of the kubel or anything that people got upset about, this is back when Peter did and was responsible for a lot of very very terrible changes to the game.

But but but... there is so much math in his balance articles! And; difference!

It's not about losing, it's about being aggravating to play against. It prolongs matches that shouldn't be prolonged.

Like are you arguing that call in's are fine?

yes its fine. why? because there is a window of opportunity for you to exploit the lack of enemies armor with your own armor. you have plenty of time to prepare by laying mines, purchasing at guns, etc. its actually super hard for soviets to play on just t1 t2 with no fuel purchases because mg42s are ownage right now. they need some sort of fuel purchase to help break through the lines. the benefit of waiting for call ins is that individually the call in tanks are stronger than their counterparts, because guess what, they cost more. but at the same time, it doesnt make mediums invincible. also holding 2/3 of the map really doesnt fucking matter unless youre holding both fuels.

yes its fine. why? because there is a window of opportunity for you to exploit the lack of enemies armor with your own armor. you have plenty of time to prepare by laying mines, purchasing at guns, etc. its actually super hard for soviets to play on just t1 t2 with no fuel purchases because mg42s are ownage right now. they need some sort of fuel purchase to help break through the lines. the benefit of waiting for call ins is that individually the call in tanks are stronger than their counterparts, because guess what, they cost more. but at the same time, it doesnt make mediums invincible. also holding 2/3 of the map really doesnt fucking matter unless youre holding both fuels.

Alright, perhaps the meta will settle more and call in's will be a lot less of a problem over time. But it would still be nice if Soviets didn't have to rely on call in's as much no?

Really I just wish commanders informed strategy and changed it rather than just being a uniform standard of call in buggery. Ostheer is very fun to play because you have a good stock army and you can work off of that to vary your play style, USF and OKW are kinda similar but still have big holes in their unit lists.

Most balance is perceived

Game should be balanced from only the top 200, maybe 350, players

yes its fine. why? because there is a window of opportunity for you to exploit the lack of enemies armor with your own armor. you have plenty of time to prepare by laying mines, purchasing at guns, etc. its actually super hard for soviets to play on just t1 t2 with no fuel purchases because mg42s are ownage right now. they need some sort of fuel purchase to help break through the lines. the benefit of waiting for call ins is that individually the call in tanks are stronger than their counterparts, because guess what, they cost more. but at the same time, it doesnt make mediums invincible. also holding 2/3 of the map really doesnt fucking matter unless youre holding both fuels.

idk how well it works in 1v1s with RGs but maxims still hardcounter MG42s. in team games i'll just build 4-5 of them are move them around as a loose blob supporting each other.