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russian armor

Stug G vs. Soviet and Allied armor

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22 Jun 2015, 16:42 PM
#101
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2015, 16:28 PMNapalm


Don't you think the lack of precision strike is going to hurt a bit? The accuracy of the Soviet mortars is a bit...well...they are firing drunk.

Trust me when I say this: Even when intoxicated Soviet Mortar squads are deadly. Especially the 120. Here's a little taste of the patch to come with 120s not using precision :foreveralone:
22 Jun 2015, 16:52 PM
#102
avatar of SUCKmyCLOCK

Posts: 207

Stug could remove target weak point in exchange for HE shell switching like isu152. That way is retains the assault gun roll.


Not a bad idea at all sir!
22 Jun 2015, 17:02 PM
#103
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Good one. They have same scatter values. Barrage is 40% more accurate. To balance it out due to slower rof is that they fire against smaller squads.

Not sure if 300% longer reload is a good justification to smaller squads of only 1 faction as OKW got pretty numerous infantry squads that don't take much to reinforce(volks and pfusiliers namely).

The advantages of the 120 are as clear as day so theres nothing to explain there

You meant advantage? Singular.
Range is the only advantage 120mm will have now, all other stats are inferior.
22 Jun 2015, 17:27 PM
#104
avatar of daspoulos

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2015, 17:02 PMKatitof



You meant advantage? Singular.
Range is the only advantage 120mm will have now, all other stats are inferior.
AOE profile, call in synergy with t1. Can run away with 1 man. Range. Im not an idiot kati.

Longer reload and higher price are its only cons.

As for the 82mm, well 300% sounds quite large yes. But the 82mm mortar performs pretty well imo. But the lowest I could imagine putting its reaload to 250% slower. Otherwise its just too good. If you put it any lower that is.
22 Jun 2015, 17:30 PM
#105
avatar of Corsin

Posts: 600

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Jun 2015, 10:22 AMButcher
If you are not capable to use an AT gun versus it but tanks, you are attacking a (hard) counter of your tanks. You should have a hard time.

It still has less range than a SU-85, gets 4 shot by AT guns and doesn´t kill infantry reliably any longer.

The "nurf threads" will be done by people solely relying on call in tank meta. People who don´t use combined arms. Something we want to get rid of.


Pretty much this ^




AOE profile, call in synergy with t1. Can run away with 1 man. Range. Im not an idiot kati.


He knows you're not. but how DARE you criticize something Soviet when wehrmacht just had a unit made useful!!!! Jeez dude get with the program.

Katitof just got a step away from his dream Commandoscripts, give him a few weeks he'll calm down.
22 Jun 2015, 17:47 PM
#106
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

AOE profile, call in synergy with t1. Can run away with 1 man. Range. Im not an idiot kati.

Longer reload and higher price are its only cons.

As for the 82mm, well 300% sounds quite large yes. But the 82mm mortar performs pretty well imo. But the lowest I could imagine putting its reaload to 250% slower. Otherwise its just too good. If you put it any lower that is.

Umm, when the patch hits the aoe won't be as deadly as it used to be, it'll be just 10% more what currently T2 mortar does, so 120mm lethality will drop a LOT.

I'll give you the 1 man retreat, completely forgot about that.
23 Jun 2015, 10:49 AM
#107
avatar of ofield

Posts: 420

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Jun 2015, 01:45 AMCieZ
Stug G will hard-counter Allied mediums, but lose to Allied TDs - which is what Panthers and/or PaK40s are made to deal with.

It'll be a great tank for it's price.

Bad vs infantry, but it'll eat up armor for sure. Probably reliable against Is2s too, as long as there are no ZiS around.


I actually think that the Stug G will be able to deal with Allied TD thx to increased range, hp, penetration and ofc TWP.
23 Jun 2015, 11:20 AM
#108
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jun 2015, 10:49 AMofield


I actually think that the Stug G will be able to deal with Allied TD thx to increased range, hp, penetration and ofc TWP.

It didn't got increased range.
This change was scrapped.

HP and TWP on the other hand will give allied tanks a hard time and it'll take some time for people to get accustomed to the change.
23 Jun 2015, 11:59 AM
#109
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jun 2015, 11:20 AMKatitof

It didn't got increased range.
This change was scrapped.

HP and TWP on the other hand will give allied tanks a hard time and it'll take some time for people to get accustomed to the change.


So you will back up your 85 with a Su-85 in the worst case. It will be enough to defeat any "stug wall". Or, go directly to T4 and build a couple of SU-85s that will self spot AND outrange the stugs. This, if you are to lazy to flank. Plenty of solutions. False problem.
23 Jun 2015, 12:09 PM
#110
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jun 2015, 11:59 AMJohnnyB


So you will back up your 85 with a Su-85 in the worst case. It will be enough to defeat any "stug wall". Or, go directly to T4 and build a couple of SU-85s that will self spot AND outrange the stugs. This, if you are to lazy to flank. Plenty of solutions. False problem.

Sure, I will.
Because it doesn't cost about 500 fuel to get 34/85s and SINGLE SU-85. Advanced warfare is dead because of ppsh shooting marbles and cons having problems pointing it right direction.
How many StuGs will you have by that time?

You're as detached from the game and what actually happens in it as alex or relic.
23 Jun 2015, 14:18 PM
#111
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jun 2015, 12:09 PMKatitof



You're as detached from the game and what actually happens in it as alex or relic.


Not as detached as you are from any common sense of balance. If alpha was such a great success it must be because your lousy alpha forum whinings were completely ignored.

...Detached...says the hardcore soviet fanboy who spends its time writing propaganda on 2 forums instead actualy playing the game. And you wanna be taken seriously while whining before changes are even implemented. The lolz.
23 Jun 2015, 16:50 PM
#112
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

The hipocresy is real.

Can we go back to Stugs?
People will use them cost they will be cost effective.

On 1v1 situation against an Su85, it will depend on who lands the first shot. But at vet1 for both, it's a matter of the Axis player to make use of TWP.
30 Jun 2015, 16:44 PM
#113
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

After few games and couple of tests I can say that TWP for Stug G should be switched for something else. 1 Pak and 2 Stugs (or 3 Stugs) can completly stun lock IS2 and finish it.

Once there was a cry about button making tanks almost immobile (tho you coud break it with smoke) and right now we have even worse thing - stun locking any heavy tank without any chance to get out. Just little micro and IS2 or any other tank is going down.
30 Jun 2015, 17:04 PM
#114
avatar of G4bb4_G4nd4lf
Donator 33

Posts: 658

After few games and couple of tests I can say that TWP for Stug G should be switched for something else. 1 Pak and 2 Stugs (or 3 Stugs) can completly stun lock IS2 and finish it.


180FU / 270FU of dedicated TDs (its AoE / accuracy is most likely unintended) + Pak which all have to be vet 1 win against a 230FU heavy tank (seemingly without ZiS support). Honestly, I don't think that TWP is much of an issue.

You can always use smoke to prevent LoS (either by using shocks or even mortars).
30 Jun 2015, 17:11 PM
#115
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

@UP

Actually, stug have 60% accuracy to directly hit infantry model, because relic QA is a bunch of chimps if it even exists.

That makes it most accurate AI vehicle in the whole game, better accuracy have only flame weapons.

While its obvious bug, its there and it doesn't seem like relic is rushing themselves to fix it.
30 Jun 2015, 17:14 PM
#116
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

1 Pak and 2 Stugs (or 3 Stugs) can completly stun lock IS2 and finish it.


TWP or not, that much firepower on one lone IS-2 will kill it. 480-640 potential damage being able to pen IS-2 most of time means it'll be lucky to survive 10 seconds.

I had a game where one IS-2 by itself charged my 3 Stugs and the result was obvious. Thats precisely the reason why i built so many Stugs for a decent investment...

Zis is a reasonable counter. As well as SU-85 and underrated ISU.
30 Jun 2015, 17:16 PM
#117
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jun 2015, 17:11 PMKatitof
@UP

Actually, stug have 60% accuracy to directly hit infantry model, because relic QA is a bunch of chimps if it even exists.

That makes it most accurate AI vehicle in the whole game, better accuracy have only flame weapons.

While its obvious bug, its there and it doesn't seem like relic is rushing themselves to fix it.


Yeah its finishing off retreating squads more often than anything else, which is odd as hell... Anything else flat out misses 99.99999% of the time.

But grens can supress squads, so Relic is clearly outdoing themselves in terms of trolling.
30 Jun 2015, 17:18 PM
#118
avatar of CookiezNcreem
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15

After few games and couple of tests I can say that TWP for Stug G should be switched for something else. 1 Pak and 2 Stugs (or 3 Stugs) can completly stun lock IS2 and finish it.

Once there was a cry about button making tanks almost immobile (tho you coud break it with smoke) and right now we have even worse thing - stun locking any heavy tank without any chance to get out. Just little micro and IS2 or any other tank is going down.



well should the IS2 have any use in that situation? I dont understand what you want, youre charging a heavy into a wall of vetted tank destroyers.

KT couldnt charge into vet 2+ SU85s,could it?

even flank with T3476s and t70s to clear paks and team weapons and force stugs to turn while IS2 comes up the middle with infantry.. not like you can just spam IS2s anymore anyway,why not mix up the armor,and I dont know,use tactics while attacking a position instead of a-move is2 and drop flame bombs to wipe whole army.


30 Jun 2015, 17:51 PM
#119
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

Point is that you cannot move. You cannot do nothing. TWP on 2 units which are used very often is too much.

If I overrun Tiger/Panther/KT into SU85+ZiSes there are many many things which may happen. I can reverse to late and my armor won't bounce anything, so SU will finish me at the end of the range.

I can use smoke.

I smoke blitz.

I can bounce few shots and survive.
_____
If I overrun IS2 into Pak40 and Stugs G I have no chance of getting out. Armor won't help me (unless huge RNG God allows me), secure mode won't help me ( :foreveralone: ), I can just sit and wait till IS2 is dead.

I belive stun-locking for 5-10secs should not take a place.
30 Jun 2015, 17:56 PM
#120
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1




well should the IS2 have any use in that situation? I dont understand what you want, youre charging a heavy into a wall of vetted tank destroyers.

KT couldnt charge into vet 2+ SU85s,could it?

even flank with T3476s and t70s to clear paks and team weapons and force stugs to turn while IS2 comes up the middle with infantry.. not like you can just spam IS2s anymore anyway,why not mix up the armor,and I dont know,use tactics while attacking a position instead of a-move is2 and drop flame bombs to wipe whole army.




A KT or a TA would not get stunlocked and die if they happen to cross paths with 2 vet 1 SU85s and a ZIS gun.

I personally think TWP on the Stug G is too much. I've been playing mostly Wehrmacht this patch and taking out enemy mediums with the Stug G is too damn easy. If there is an enemy medium on a flank and you have 2 StugGs and 1 of them is vet 1, you can roll in, fire TWP from 50 range and kill it without any counterplay options. TWP is excellent on the PAK40 and usefull on the elephant, but it is completely insane on the StugG.
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