Loitering JU-87 anti-tank stuka too strong?

Comparing it to P47 results in quite obvious over performance of Stuka AT loiter.

P47 is completely unable to wreck armor in single pass even if both planes hit, which is extremely rare occuranece.

P47 doesn't target infantry and team weapons, killing them just as effectively, stuka does.

The stuka have also excellent tracking, it'll get to half HP moving IS-2 in a single pass, show me the same being done by P47.

Stuka does what P47 does, except better, cheaper and it does more of it.

One thing that P47 have for them is the sight range, but that is it.

I've had the P-47 destroy numerous tiger tanks in the one game. Not to mention the all exclusive ace. Your bias is ridiculous katitof.

Not to mention to pay 200 munis to shoot at at-guns and support infantry is plain broken.

I've had the P-47 destroy numerous tiger tanks in the one game. Not to mention the all exclusive ace. Your bias is ridiculous katitof.

Not to mention to pay 200 munis to shoot at at-guns and support infantry is plain broken.

I don't think you understand. The problem we have with the stuka loiter is that it can kill a full health medium tank in one run. That is completely broken. 2 P47 runs cannot do that.

This allows the German player to dodge the P47. The allied player on the other hand, must not only move to escape the zone, but be wary of any pathing issues that may cause the tank to slow down, as the Stuka loiter does in fact chase targets.There is no reason for a strafe to kill a full health tank.

A strafe finishing a damaged tank in one run make sense, but a strafe wiping high fuel investment units in one strike is just plane silly (Kappa). The USF mechanized artillery and several NDA strikes were nerfed because they were able to oneshot OKW base buildings, why should the Stuka be able to do the same to allied mesium tanks, which are a much more sizeable investment?

Stuka:

-Single plane
-needs a spotter
+harder to dodge (but possible)
+used against targets usually with lower health, which results more often in their destruction

you don't use it to counter at guns or infantry, in fact it's annoying when it targets infantry instead of tanks.


P47d

+ 2 planes
+ spots for itself
- rockets can miss
+ provides recon when no target is in target area
- can be easily dodged with blitzkrieg


The Stuka loiter was USELESS before it was buffed several patches ago. I don't see the reason why we need to return to this stat, giving the fact its a endgame ability for a faction that has a weak early game.

If you want to nerf the Stuka, you need to nerf the P47d aswell.

Both can be countered with AA, a fact a lot of people here seem to forget.
I don't complain about those abilities, because I actually use AA instead of whining something is OP.

Stuka:

-Single plane
-needs a spotter
+harder to dodge (but possible)
+used against targets usually with lower health, which results more often in their destruction

you don't use it to counter at guns or infantry, in fact it's annoying when it targets infantry instead of tanks.


P47d

+ 2 planes
+ spots for itself
- rockets can miss
+ provides recon when no target is in target area
- can be easily dodged with blitzkrieg


The Stuka loiter was USELESS before it was buffed several patches ago. I don't see the reason why we need to return to this stat, giving the fact its a endgame ability for a faction that has a weak early game.

If you want to nerf the Stuka, you need to nerf the P47d aswell.

Both can be countered with AA, a fact a lot of people here seem to forget.
I don't complain about those abilities, because I actually use AA instead of whining something is OP.

I never said that the P47 doesn't need a nerf, but you cannot justify an OP ability by saying that it is fine due to a weak early game. By that admission, you would say that the -NDA- abilities that you were so vehemently against were perfectly fine.

There is 0 reason for the JU87 CAS loiter to oneshot medium tanks. Medium tanks are a huge investment that should not be nullified by clicking a button. No other ability is as powerful as the JU87 loiter, yet the JU87 is also on 200mu, which is cheaper than the p47 and only 20mu more than the IL2 strafe.

The fact that the stuka shoots at weaker targets has nothing to do with it. The Stuka straight up deals more damage on one run than 2 p47s do, and this is bad. If the p47 was called on a P4 and the Stuka loiter was called on a Sherman, both of which have the same HP, the Sherman would die on the first strike while the P4 would not. Also, the stuka does in fact spot for itself, as do all loitering aircraft abilities. The stuka will also neverr fire at infantry if it spots armor first. If your enemy armor moves into the zone after the unit has locked on, then it will shoot at the infantry, but that is just your enemy using game mechanics in his favor. I can assure you that if the P47 could target infantry as well, it would be even better. The 2 planes for the P47 doesn't mean much, since in higher game modes the OKW will always have a T4 emplacement for AA. The reason the P47 was increased to two planes was because the single plane strike was shot down too often by the Germans' higher access to AA.

Players without AA should have a chance to dodge abilities. The IR pathfinders have counter play (shoot them) but their artillery is very much dodgeable without requiring the squad to die. Not to mention the fact that AA only helps stop subsequent strikes, the first strike will almost always hit. Also, the vid you posted has the tank already moving away before the strike is called. That isn't a player dodging after it is called on an engagement, that is a player already retreating to base for other reasons.

There is no reason to whine about nerfs on the possibility of an overnerf. Otherwise, IS2, old ISU, and T34/85 are fine because they may get overnerfed into uselessness like in the early days. (Doesn't make sense, does it)

You still haven't given a valid reason for the Stuka to be more effective, cheaper, and have more utility (AI) than the P47 strafe.

Stuka:

-Single plane
-needs a spotter
+harder to dodge (but possible)
+used against targets usually with lower health, which results more often in their destruction

you don't use it to counter at guns or infantry, in fact it's annoying when it targets infantry instead of tanks.


P47d

+ 2 planes
+ spots for itself
- rockets can miss
+ provides recon when no target is in target area
- can be easily dodged with blitzkrieg


The Stuka loiter was USELESS before it was buffed several patches ago. I don't see the reason why we need to return to this stat, giving the fact its a endgame ability for a faction that has a weak early game.

If you want to nerf the Stuka, you need to nerf the P47d aswell.

Both can be countered with AA, a fact a lot of people here seem to forget.
I don't complain about those abilities, because I actually use AA instead of whining something is OP.

The p-47 can also be easily countered because axis have much more accessible anti air. And if you are a medium tank, standing still will make most of the rockets miss. If you are a heavy tank, going forward will also make most of the rockets miss.


And why is targetting at guns or infantry a bad thing? The thing usually insta wipes absolutely everything it shoots.

If you want to nerf the Stuka, you need to nerf the P47d aswell.

Both can be countered with AA, a fact a lot of people here seem to forget.
I don't complain about those abilities, because I actually use AA instead of whining something is OP.

p47 costs 240muni, it doesn't need a nurf

usf aa ht and sov quad will both die to stuka. while both p47's will die to a single flak ht