Stuka a bit too much

You cant begin an argument with the premise that CAS has a tradeoff.

CAS has zero tradeoff and very little risk

because 50 fuel for each conversion is no tradeoff

AA unit to counter single strafes? never works.

if CAS user is an idiot, he will convert fuel to ammo as soon as he can and as many times as he can. if he is not an idiot, he will wait or be very selective about converting fuel to muni until his army is as strong. game goes long, both sides are good at preserving units, and it is not uncommon to have 200+ fuel floating. as far as most players go, it is a wasted resource until you lose shit. not with CAS. in the forms of airplanes, and unlimited ammo (which can be spent regardless of popcap), it allows your army value to go above and beyond that of others.

trade off? no tiger or ele. not that it matters in 3v3+.

ha! dodge AI strafe with infantry? you know the aoe suppression reaches out to units 30m away right? what kind of brain dead CAS user are we talking about?

Guess you better move it 31 meters

Guess you better move it 31 meters

It also only suppresses if it catches you on the edges of it's AoE, and you get unsuppressed fairly quickly if your not being shot at. It's pointless to use it unless your shooting at the army in question.

The only people who complain about it are blobbers who like to move their entire army across the map in one huge horde and are mad that they get pinned and wiped out when putting in the bare minimum amount of effort to spread across the map would have saved them.

It also only suppresses if it catches you on the edges of it's AoE, and you get unsuppressed fairly quickly if your not being shot at. It's pointless to use it unless your shooting at the army in question.

The only people who complain about it are blobbers who like to move their entire army across the map in one huge horde and are mad that they get pinned and wiped out when putting in the bare minimum amount of effort to spread across the map would have saved them.

Out of all 5 units in a blob I only ever manage to hit one. They can escape. If Relic makes it that even MG strafe doesn't catch its target then this doctrine goes into the trash.


(At least I got it for free after coh2 won the MWNL contest)

lol. one axis guy go CAS in 3v3+, you have to dodge strafes every 2 min from mid-late game on. two axis players, every 30 sec to a minute. you know, during the part of the game when you have most units and variety of units to micro.

but sorry. just because single pass CAS is technically dodgeable, whether you have 2 sec or 6 sec to dodge, so it is just fine.

Too hard and blind to see a single click-uncounterable abilities are cheese as shit. game needs to cater to my lazy play style where i click once in a while and the opponent, in order to counter, has to be constantly vigilant, be ready to move anything, predict where the plane might be called in, be ready to look away from the big fight that will decide the match etc etc. fail that for 2 sec, sorry. 480mp and 115fu gone because your tactful opponent managed to save 110 muni with commander that let you shit muni and click.

Using 3v3+ as a point of reference for game balance is silly, really balance should only be discussed and tuned at the 1v1 level, once balance is achieved there it will cascade into other game modes. A lot of people seem to think one faction has the edge over another in 3v3 and 4v4 but really success in these game modes really just comes down to which team works together/communicates the best and how effectively each player uses the tools of his/her army and commander.

Back to the point of CAS being OP in gamemodes 3v3+, sure there's a lot more going on in these game modes but that still doesn't change the fact that you can literally assign all of your vehicles to a control group, and really only one of your teammates has to notice the recon strafe (You know, that giant noticeable plane on the minimap that also makes plenty of noise to alert you? Don't forget all CAS abilities need vision in order to be target-able), call it out, and all you have to do is hit the key of your vehicle control group and move your vehicles anywhere (an area with no enemy units is probably your best bet) and wala, you've countered 145 munis worth of abilities, gratz. That's almost a full 50 fuel transfer (Fuel transfer grants 150 muni). Sure this may be harder to do if you are USF and you are in the process of repairing a vehicle with its crew, but you should know that once the recon comes in its time to put your crew back in your vehicle and move the vehicle somewhere else. And in the case of all you lame GMC t34-85 call in nerds using self repair, well quite frankly you deserve to have your tanks strafed to death, git gud pls and l2p a real faction. Or just repair with combat engis, that works too.

Another good point to make is that in order for CAS to truly be effective, it needs fuel. And lots of it. You can be certain there's going to be enemy fuel caches on the field, make it a priority to find and destroy them.

To sum up the wall of text above in a cheeky sarcastic response:

I can't be bothered to move my priest, especially during my clutch A-Move into defensive stance onto the center VP with 100VP left for the Allies. It's also totally unfair that my Major can be divebombed when I'm making a sick flank on the middle along with my allies 10 t34-85s with my single sherman, HE Shells equipped. Pls nerf stuka. All forms. Thx.

CAS is brainless due to the fact that it's user doesn't not have to interact with his opponent. Making the click-to-win mechanic unfair and unbalanced.

Id rather face armor, then at least I can counter it with mines or something else.

You're right, totally brainless. Just keep clicking the fuel convert button, and then spam recon and AT strafes, even if there isn't any armor on the field to hit. Use stuka divebomb whenever it comes off cooldown on any infantry squad you see on the field. AI strafing lone squads against a player that knows to spread his shit out is also a GREAT PLAY. Never build any tanks and let Shermans coordinating with smoke screens to come in and wreck your face instead.

But countering CAS by prioritizing fuel points and destroying fuel caches is too hard, I understand that.

PS. Take note that the simple act of playing this game in multiplayer makes you interact with your opponent. Every action within the game is an interaction with your opponent.

not in late game 3v3+ where both sides aren't losing stuffs. everybody stock up fuel and normally, the only way to spend them is when you need to replace your loses. but with amazing CAS commander, you can pin, at strafe, stuka bomb all day everyday baby.



ha! dodge AI strafe with infantry? you know the aoe suppression reaches out to units 30m away right? what kind of brain dead CAS user are we talking about?

If you're playing Sheldt style where both factions take their equal share of the maps resources and camp out in a boring stalemate until arty arrives (480mp and 115fu Priest, anyone?) then you aren't really in any position to make complaints against another sides off map abilities. If you let them have the resources to make use of their abilities, they are going to use them. As allies there shouldn't be much difficulty taking the early game lead, especially if there is 1+ OKW players on the other team. Use your early game advantage to snowball into mid-late game and deny the retaking of territory so that you do not have to deal with heavy CAS spam.

Also, in order to deal with AI strafes, just split your blob up into two smaller blobs. At least until he/she pops the strafe, then converge the two blobs into the mega .30 cal defensive stance superblob and continue to wreck any and all infantry in your path. Or just build a Captain and utilize "On Me". If you're a soviet player, just split your guards up. You don't need to blob them anyways, they easily take on 2-3 squads of Axis infantry on their own with good enough positioning.

My problem is that it is more effective than P47's from what I have seen if the axis players get a win button then the P47 should be annihilate any armour in this area as it costs more but from the track record 10 times out of 10 has failed to do significant damage without missing next to all the shots.

As with fighting axis armour and air the panther is still a far better choice than a tiger as it has superior bouncy armour and slightly more range than tanks, it is also one of the fastest vehicles in the game making it superb at dealing with tank destroyers as opposed to a tiger it's lower anti infantry doesn't matter against USSR as they don't have infantry based AT worthy of damaging the front armour and if a giant blob of conscripts rush you just hit the thruster button and shoot off and leave them in a dust storm, US AT is still a laughable matter but not as ridiculous and guess what both OKW and Ostheer can get panthers without doctrine it is arguably the strongest tank in the game especially for it's price, take a anti tank strike with a few panthers and the allies have no vehicles left on the map.

P47 rocket strafe is a whole separate beast than stuka AT strafe and therefore can't really be compared to it; when using the p47 properly there is very little your opponent can do to pull a heavy back to safety before it is destroyed, especially if you get engine damage on it before you call in the strafe. Placing the strafe to maximize the time the tank needs to spend inside the radius in order to get to safety as well as sending tank destroyers to corral it into the path you want it to take usually resorts in a dead tank, not to mention the planes don't need vision once called in (the call in itself however does require vision.). The p47s are considerably more expensive, and this is justified by the duration of the ability, the radius of effect and amount of firepower potentially brought to bear. This ability should never be used on axis mediums without engine damage, as they can usually just clear the area of effect due to their speed and smaller profile (p47s have a tendency to miss against smaller targets). There is arguably more potential for error when using the CAS strafe than the rocket strafe, considering how accurate you need to be with it, whereas with the rocket strafe as long as the tank sustains enough rocket hits while inside the radius it doesn't really matter how "off target" it is.

You cant begin an argument with the premise that CAS has a tradeoff.

CAS has zero tradeoff and very little risk

Another wonderful Queen shitpost.

it allows your army value to go above and beyond that of others.

That sounds alot like USF going over pop-cap by decrewing/recrewing vehicles.

Invisied a couple of posts for excessive flaming (or copy/paste of same).

Onward.

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1. oh i dodge it alright more than most of the time. sorry i am not the absolute noob you presume me to be. my problem goes way beyond that but the way you love to be demeaning makes me wonder if i should explain. sure, balance matters most in 1v1 and better balance in 1v1 would translate to better balance in 3v3+ in general. not with CAS Comm though. for the fact that its power exponentially gain from change of gamemode.

2. what is this early game advantage you speak of? in the shit maps that relic has given us? for real? also, using your logic, i guess axis 3v3+ players cannot complain about is2s. it is their fault for letting sov horde that fuel so much. given how 3v3+ maps are most unflankable of all maps.

3. wrong + wrong = right? wuat?

Quite possibly it will be changed; I have not argued that everything is A-OK in current implementation, only that decisive off-maps are not inherently contrary to the design.

You say the game is "clearly" about cover, micro etc.; but as I've already pointed out you're ignoring the strategy element. Because if that was ALL the game was intended to be about, there is no reason that it could not occur on a plain map without any resource points. Quite clearly, the intent is ALSO that players should be motivated to contest specific territories, to choose to fight or not fight depending on how valuable a territory is, to split their micro between fighting and capping.

And the reward for that is BOTH fuel, used to bring in heavier units, AND munitions, to increase lethality. Those off-maps are clearly an intentional benefit from map control. They didn't build a game with three different resource currencies by accident.

What are you even talking about now? All of these things fit in perfectly with what I was talking about - micro, unit preservation, and tactical engagements and planning. None of this is in harmony with an offmap ability that can wipe units outside of engagements, just like I said earlier.

You can keep arguing about it if you want, but like I said earlier, relic has a history of agreeing with this position and adjusting offmap abilities accordingly when it becomes clear that they are performing too strongly.

You cant begin an argument with the premise that CAS has a tradeoff.

CAS has zero tradeoff and very little risk

The funny fact is that when the B4 was still stronk that the wining was considerably less then now. What changed? (B4 nerfed boohoo, ML-20 could have done the job with the same effect)

CAS strafes are easily dodgeable only if the Ostheer player is a complete noob not using combined arms.

Now dodging a CAS strafe supporting an attack isn't really possible, or its call full retreat and losing map control and probably the game. Same goes using strafe to counter an assault, you launch your strafe on your line and see all Allied infantry or retreating or being pinned and raped by MGs/LMGs.

It would be fine if strafe had a strong cost but it doesn't, in fact you can still build tanks as the fuel cost for conversion is really small and at the moment your army is fully equipped with LMG/Shreck and chock points mined, you can either decide to use strafe or to build tanks or a mix of both (imo the best option).

Now, the result isn't the same in every game mode, in 1sv1 since there are less resources, you can't use it as much as in any other game mode, but same goes for all abilities.

I think the problem is really the conversion, too cheap for what it provides in large game mode.
And it meet another idea I had around it, to reduce any resource incomes in large game mode.

CAS strafes are easily dodgeable only if the Ostheer player is a complete noob not using combined arms.

Now dodging a CAS strafe supporting an attack isn't really possible, or its call full retreat and losing map control and probably the game. Same goes using strafe to counter an assault, you launch your strafe on your line and see all Allied infantry or retreating or being pinned and raped by MGs/LMGs.

It would be fine if strafe had a strong cost but it doesn't, in fact you can still build tanks as the fuel cost for conversion is really small and at the moment your army is fully equipped with LMG/Shreck and chock points mined, you can either decide to use strafe or to build tanks or a mix of both (imo the best option).

Now, the result isn't the same in every game mode, in 1sv1 since there are less resources, you can't use it as much as in any other game mode, but same goes for all abilities.

I think the problem is really the conversion, too cheap for what it provides in large game mode.
And it meet another idea I had around it, to reduce any resource incomes in large game mode.

+1


It can also be used to save axis armor from AT infantry saving a panther or even a pz4 really by calling this is completely worth it I would think.

P47 rocket strafe is a whole separate beast than stuka AT strafe and therefore can't really be compared to it; when using the p47 properly there is very little your opponent can do to pull a heavy back to safety before it is destroyed, especially if you get engine damage on it before you call in the strafe. Placing the strafe to maximize the time the tank needs to spend inside the radius in order to get to safety as well as sending tank destroyers to corral it into the path you want it to take usually resorts in a dead tank, not to mention the planes don't need vision once called in (the call in itself however does require vision.). The p47s are considerably more expensive, and this is justified by the duration of the ability, the radius of effect and amount of firepower potentially brought to bear. This ability should never be used on axis mediums without engine damage, as they can usually just clear the area of effect due to their speed and smaller profile (p47s have a tendency to miss against smaller targets). There is arguably more potential for error when using the CAS strafe than the rocket strafe, considering how accurate you need to be with it, whereas with the rocket strafe as long as the tank sustains enough rocket hits while inside the radius it doesn't really matter how "off target" it is.

Yeah except when the vehicles remain within the circle and deal less damage than a single jackson shell, definately 240 munitions worth, I have 3 panzer 4's in the circle for the entire duration and not a single rocket hit and dealt damage, I'm not asking anything too crazy, I'm saying if a 120 munition strike can clear a vehicle with ease if you don't move it then a 240 munition strike should kill an axis vehicle if it's not moved, like some people have said if your not "skilled" enough to dodge the strikes then you should lose the vehicle, what is so hard to understand if I started only paying 200 MP for conscripts yet grenadiers are 240 MP and there are no changes someone would be up in arms.

How is it too much? If in a 1v1 they choose it as a first heavier fuel unit, it's pretty much gg. If they get it later, just stalk it, flank everywhere, set up some tanks in a flanking position, and wait untill you hear it. Then rush it. Remember, the pathfinding on the thing is horrible, it will not get away xd

erm..this is a perfect example of a guy who only reads titles , classic. XD!

erm..this is a perfect example of a guy who only reads titles , classic. XD!

lol I posted this in the wrong thread and vice versa! XD

CAS strafes are easily dodgeable only if the Ostheer player is a complete noob not using combined arms.

Now dodging a CAS strafe supporting an attack isn't really possible

Who's the scrub, the guy who pops red smoke for a big airplane to come or the guy that sticks around to get strafed WHILE being pinned by MG or getting mortared or shot at

unless it's on a noob map like road to kharkov it's 100% dodgeable unless you like to hang out on the edge of maps when your enemy has CAS doctrine

like i said, what kind of player can't dodge in these giant maps like lierneux? pls