repetitiveness and spam, the true disease of this game

The title says almost all of it. I have been seeing nothing but spams for months now. It is getting pretty boring and cringe worthy. As soon as I see a 2v2 Russian team, I know what is going to come. Now I was shocked a few weeks ago when I saw some guards, yet they now feed the epic spams as well.

one of the following:

1. Shocks --> Is2

2. Guards --> T34 85

3. Conscripts --> T34 85

4. Conscripts --> Is2

4. Conscripts --> Ptrs conscripts --> multiple t34 76s

Literally nothing else, so boring and repetitive, it makes one puke

vs the USF you get either riflespam or docrtine infantry spam followed by:

--> shermans
--> jackson

--> Shermans + doctrinal armor

or

--> the the horrible rifle spam with 1919 and bazookas and some shermans

But to add some more fuel to the flames, as Allies, you get the same flavor. The OKW and the three most common spams I face when playing against them:

1. Volk spam --> volk shreck spam --> Schwere HQ denial of teritory --> Panther

2. Jager spam --> volk shrekcs --> Schwere HQ denial of teritory --> Panther

3. Panzer Fuseliers spam --> rakettenwerfers --> Schwere HQ denial of teritory --> Panther

Kubels mixed in here and there, annoynce beyond imagination.

Ostheer as always trying to strugle their way up from the first minute.
My most effective tactic with Ostheer so far:

skipping t1 --> 2 pios --> one fuel cahce --> capping and avoiding confrontations --> t2 rush --> 2 panzergrenadiers --> scout car --> t1 --> mg42s --> pak or panzergrenadiers (depending on kind of spam) --> techup when possible and go on from there.

If I spam with that faction, it never works. What I am trying to say is, the irritations of spam are getting larger and larger with every game. I can't be the only one who has lost much of the love he once held for this game. Now with the brits comming up, I fear more spam, more horrible meta and more horrible games.

at this point the game is basically company of spam (if you bought the right edition it even comes in a tin). the cause is a combination of a limited number of units and poor balance (internal and external) of those units. it's actually worse then it seems for all factions except OKH (and them as well to a certain extent) because the other factions (sort of OKW) don't get more than 1/2 or 2/3 of their total units in a given game.

That ostheer strat you mentioned is worthless. Who in their right mind goes double panzergrens? You should never ever think about deploying pgrens unless you have a few grens or some mg42s around. Pgrens on their own is easily countered, because they require atleast 3-4 men to be effective.

That ostheer strat you mentioned is worthless. Who in their right mind goes double panzergrens? You should never ever think about deploying pgrens unless you have a few grens or some mg42s around. Pgrens on their own is easily countered, because they require atleast 3-4 men to be effective.

Yet it brings me victory time and time again. I like your furious comment, yet you haven't tried it, something I can see just by looking at your comment. It Work flawlessly. 3 panzergrens squads in good cover rape anything they can find, apart from shock spam, that one is hard. Focussing down on one squad works but will leave you with, most likely, two other shock squads to attend.

Forgot to mention I go scout car as well!

at this point the game is basically company of spam (if you bought the right edition it even comes in a tin). the cause is a combination of a limited number of units and poor balance (internal and external) of those units. it's actually worse then it seems for all factions except OKH (and them as well to a certain extent) because the other factions (sort of OKW) don't get more than 1/2 or 2/3 of their total units in a given game.

Agreed. Company of call ins and company of Spamtastica

Out spam the spammer with more spam units and spam harder better faster spammer.

Out spam the spammer with more spam units and spam harder better faster spammer.

Your guidance is uncanny, one can only envision what terror you bestow upon the battlefield. Yet I wonder, how does this resolve the spam issues?

My most effective tactic with Ostheer so far:

...

If I spam with that faction, it never works.

Try building 4 Grens into T2 and a 251. Then convert fuel to ammo for 4x LMG42. Works quite well.

Try building 4 Grens into T2 and a 251. Then convert fuel to ammo for 4x LMG42. Works quite well.

or in team games just get ~~6 grens with lmgs. it won't be very impressive for the first 5 minutes or so but suddenly the long range damage is so much that everything without that kind of ranged dps dies like flies.

The title says almost all of it. I have been seeing nothing but spams for months now. It is getting pretty boring and cringe worthy. As soon as I see a 2v2 Russian team, I know what is going to come. Now I was shocked a few weeks ago when I saw some guards, yet they now feed the epic spams as well.

one of the following:

1. Shocks --> Is2

2. Guards --> T34 85

3. Conscripts --> T34 85

4. Conscripts --> Is2

4. Conscripts --> Ptrs conscripts --> multiple t34 76s

You forgot :

- Maxim Spam
- M3 flame cheese
- Sniper abuse
- Penal spam flamer Cheese

Literally nothing else, so boring and repetitive, it makes one puke

In all reality, soviets have the most options of all the factions for varied openings and playstyle but are hard to master without spamming. This is the problem with most soviets and to lesser degree USF, many players can't complete without resorting to some kind cheese tactic. To those that say Soviets have no choice, well having watched Stephenn cast ( probably more than what i play ) i would disagree with you. Soviets are just as viable when spammed and abused, although combined arms is more enjoyable and more effective.

But this is why soviet matchup is boring. It often feels like your opponent is just taking the easiest route to win, rather than opting for an interesting game. These days i quit as many games as i play against soviets largely because my opponents crap just bores me. Better to hope next game is interesting even if rank takes a hit rather than just grind out the same crap over and over and over.

Note : i blame relic moreso for this situation, as the majority of plays will take a boring win over enjoyable loss.

vs the USF you get either riflespam or docrtine infantry spam followed by:

--> shermans
--> jackson

--> Shermans + doctrinal armor

or

--> the the horrible rifle spam with 1919 and bazookas and some shermans

But to add some more fuel to the flames, as Allies, you get the same flavor. The OKW and the three most common spams I face when playing against them:

OKW design is just broken. Trying to used combined arms is just an exercise in frustration and often you will be facing spam so spamming back is the only real option.

1. Volk spam --> volk shreck spam --> Schwere HQ denial of teritory --> Panther

2. Jager spam --> volk shrekcs --> Schwere HQ denial of teritory --> Panther

3. Panzer Fuseliers spam --> rakettenwerfers --> Schwere HQ denial of teritory --> Panther

Kubels mixed in here and there, annoynce beyond imagination.

Ostheer as always trying to strugle their way up from the first minute.
My most effective tactic with Ostheer so far:

Ostheer are mostly fine atm, some minor teching adjustments needed. The big issue is still the fucking squad wipes because of the cover sysytem.

skipping t1 --> 2 pios --> one fuel cahce --> capping and avoiding confrontations --> t2 rush --> 2 panzergrenadiers --> scout car --> t1 --> mg42s --> pak or panzergrenadiers (depending on kind of spam) --> techup when possible and go on from there.

I cannot see this working in 1v1 against any semi competent player.

If I spam with that faction, it never works. What I am trying to say is, the irritations of spam are getting larger and larger with every game. I can't be the only one who has lost much of the love he once held for this game. Now with the brits comming up, I fear more spam, more horrible meta and more horrible games.

The game is geared more towards the casual gamer so they can sell more DLC etc etc. Coh1 could be hard to get into, you would often get annihilated when you first dipped your toe into multiplayer and as such many would never return. Smurphing was a major problem in coh1. Is coh better than coh2, well yes and no, both appeal to different players.

The issue imo comes from how manpower is calculated and to a lesser degree how mapcontrol has no effect on unit numbers. The fact that a faction can just keep building infantry until callins and remain relatively competitive is not going to lead to interesting and challenging games. I have seen many games where an infantry spammer has only slightly lower manpower income than someone who is going combined arms/ at guns/ tanks, which to me seems to be wrong. Going armour should give a greater manpower advantage than it currently does.This ofc does not apply so much at higher level.

This game still has huge potential but i doubt relic will ever address the issue of spam because it will simply alienate much of the player base. Sadly i think it is the scrubs that make relic the most money and that why these issues for some will always remain...

I mean, that's kinda how the game was designed. It's a game about micro with token strategic elements. You can love it or hate it, but it's pretty obvious at this point that the design philosophy is here to stay.

Dang--Inverse took the post out of my keyboard.
Micro is king.
Personally, I love it.
I dislike playing StarCraft 2 because it's so heavily macro focused. Ergh. I have not the mindset to memorize and optimize such routine yet diverse notions of building, timing, etc.
Brood War was more fun IMO~
Because a skilled Roy can beat ANY Fox. Whoops, wrong game.
Micro can win the day, is what I mean. SC2, far less so.

Also, as US if you're fighting against OKW you should probably go M8 over sherman.

Para's + Paths are fairly common and incredibly effective. The USF, however, is designed around 1 infantry squad (riflemen) and vehicle crews, hard to avoid spam.

I find that a mix of infantry works really well with OKW (Sturms, volks, obers, doctrinal), but you need enough AT and the ability to lock fuel down. The Flack building is key for OKW, they would lose the mid game otherwise (and they always do when I kill it in setup or overrun it early)

SU is very easy to spam but they are more effective with at least 2 infantry types and 1 support weapon. The advantage to using combined arms well is that you can break the back of a spammed force (or riflemen that don't have a mix of lmgs and zooks). Most people aren't used to fighting combined arms and you can inflict horrendous losses with proper unit synergy; it's just much harder

I would like a little more diversity with commanders, potentially changing the feel of the whole army like the saddly overused CAS commander, the fortifications doctrine, or Airborne.

I think that more commanders help with diversity as long as they aren't cookie cutter "Generic crap and THIS heavy, vs generic crap and THAT heavy", or loaded with useless abilities (Recon for USF commanders? Stupid)

Making more units multi-role is the best option. There was a post in the Relic forums that talked about making light vehicles more versatile so they are a no brainier for combined arms usage (better abilities to justify rebuilding them in the late game).


The hard part with making any 1 unit too useful is that it may become unstoppable with support. There was a problem in CoH1 where the 2 MAN pio squad in 1 patch with vet 2 (universal purchase) and flamers could end the game within 5 minutes if spammed, they had to make adjustments.

If we have too many units there will be too many overlapping roles (StuG and P4 are good examples of this)

As this seems to be a 2v2 thread i kinda disagree here.
You forgot:

SU:
-Double clowncar
-Double sniper
-1 M3 + 1 sniper into later a 2nd sniper
-Theres some people going heavy Penal flamers or mixing it
-Maxim spam

What about the supporting units?
-Maxim (not spammed)
-120, 81, Zis etc.

-T70 or M5 rush?
-Katyusha ?

Doctrinal choice you forgot
-ISU152
-FHQ
-The unusual Howitzer or B4

From all the factions, SU is the one with most options, the problem is that you are mostly stack with that option (due to commander selection or tech choice).

I could continue with the other factions but i think that's not the point.

I would like to know how much of a unit is consider spam.
AND it's not like OKW/USF won't spam when they have little variety of support weapons and units to work with.

i cant see how that pgren build is even possibly viable at medium/high levels of play.

When i first read that PGren build it didn't come back to me, but i think i remember seeing it or a similar build used successfully in a Propogandacast by Imperial Dane. I remember i loved that one too... and other casts/recordings with that same player (who's name i can't recall at the moment) because for better or worse, he always did something different and new and most of the time in the casts, that person was successful. (whether he was playing noobs or not at the time, i don't really know)

I'd like to think just about any build can be successful if you can play it properly. Most would say that's not the case but... It's a hell of a lot more interesting than just doing the same thing with the same commander and all because it works...I've seen it with all factions, there's commanders and units and tanks that everyone sticks in their comfort zone with because the other units and commanders are deemed useless or crap.

i got slapped on the hand by a teammate in a team game (i can't recall specifics of it ;~; ) the other day because i wanted to deviate a little and chose a grey ostheer commander and not something with a Heavy tank or the stuka bomb drop xD

*sigh* i wish every unit and ability and commander was worth it's weight if you used it correctly x.x;

anything is possible if your opponent is bad enough.

Yeah, but if your playing against someone of a really low rank compared to yourself it's boring too because you could do just about anything and beat the crap out of him x3

And that gets boring even quicker ;~;

What would be fun is... having an intense match, neck and neck match with that's really close using those same interesting commanders and tactics and units that no one else even really considers using...

so... with two people around the same skill level so neither side is blown out of the water xD

Your guidance is uncanny, one can only envision what terror you bestow upon the battlefield. Yet I wonder, how does this resolve the spam issues?

If I spam with that faction, it never works.

Hah, really? Do you have CAS? If yes, try it. Convert 2-3 times and see your grens having all lmg42s, your pzgrens having all shrecks while using rifle nades or bundle grenades every time you want to. Sounds good? Well, it's possible. Currently, OStheer blob > OKW blob and in general Ostheer > OKW. The shittiest of the shittiest faction right now it's OKW. Hell, I'm going to improve my Ostheer stats, fuck OKW.