The T 34 problem
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There is just nothing in the AT arsenal that can really counter panther without ram.
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T34 also don't counter infantry. They are not bad against it, but clearly dont counter it. Shreks and fausts can decimate t34 quite easy.
But even if they did, tell me what counters Panthers? (except for general stuff).
You have to see it in a whole picture, not just "X unit can do Y while also beeing good at Z".
Russians need an ability like ram because german armor is so strong atm.
So either, nerf german armor (late game armor is what i am talking about), or let the ram in. If you let the ram in the game, i think it fits best on the t34. it would be to cheap on T70 and would not fit the role of any T4 unit.
T34 as it is, is a Jack of all trades but master of none, which i think is fine.
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Please use some sense when throwing the general 'use combined arms' argument. If I have guards, at guns, Su 85s and conscripts, they likely have panzergrenadiers, MGs, snipers and their own at guns.
Should ram cost munitions; yes. Should it destroy the main gun; yes as long as you hit the tank in the direction the gun is facing. This way you can at least micro your tank to attack ground behind yourself to keep you're gun intact, or do we not appreciate micro anymore in this game.
Panthers can kill infantry, effective as t34 or an ostwind? no. but if it gets enough shots off it can pick off infantry especially if your constantly reversing. Also against units with no AT like shocks you can just go in and crush.
Finally, the main problem is that panthers have slightly too much armour, and the t34, even the 34/85 penetration is too low. Armour needs a slight decrease (not over the top) and penetration also needs a slight increase. They shouldn't pen the front but at least be reliable on the side or rear. And for those struggling vs ram, lay mines, use shrecks/fausts, at guns and stugs.
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When a tank that is good against everything costs LESS than fragile AT, there's something wrong.
I'd buff it to about 340/80.
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You know the reason it costs so little is because its armour is paper thin, its main gun has very little armour pen, it does not have a huge amout of HP and this ability that everyone is crying about nullifies your tank, guaranteed immobilise and main gun destroyed- if your stug could ram, would you at 300 + mp? doubtfull
This is the point. A more expensive tank means ram is much more risky
Posts: 960
This is the point. A more expensive tank means ram is much more risky
Ram should be used sparingly - not as a spammable AT-weapon. I've seen at least a few players do it RIGHT. They use the T34 to deal damage, and THEN when very low, or in a situation it won't escape from, will they use ram.
Ram shouldn't be cost-effective against STUGs. Right now it is.
Historically ramming was only used when the T34 was already very damaged, or against very powerful tanks, like the Tiger. Ramming a Panzer III made no sense.
Posts: 642
The Ram mechanic could work, but like it has been stated over and over again, it is too damn cost effective. There is literally very little reason not to ram an enemy tank, right now.
The argument that keeps popping up is: "if you nerf Ram, then the russians have no AT!!!" Buff the other AT options. Buff the other AT options, buff the other AT options. Like in the original CoH, you are not supposed to go toe-to-toe with Axis armor.
Posts: 73
The only reaosn why I mentioned removing the cpa ability was because I haven't seen many untis with 2 vet abilities, so if I was suggesting ram as a vet ability, then something had to be done (its still a stupid ability imho though).
The Ram mechanic could work, but like it has been stated over and over again, it is too damn cost effective. There is literally very little reason not to ram an enemy tank, right now.
The argument that keeps popping up is: "if you nerf Ram, then the russians have no AT!!!" Buff the other AT options. Buff the other AT options, buff the other AT options. Like in the original CoH, you are not supposed to go toe-to-toe with Axis armor.
yeah, sure.
Not going toe-to-toe is okay, but it takes a whole combined effort for russians to take out 1 tank. While germans can use these tanks to deal with russian armor or just use shreks. Russians have no cost effictive way to counter tanks (except for ram).
russians have a worse AT gun than germans.
The only half decent option is the SU85.
The imbalance lategame has to be countered somehow (or rebalanced). Especially since the early game advantage of russians is not as big as some people may make it seem.
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Permanently BannedAbilities and upgrades are cheap, some, like SU76 Barrage, are even free.
Munition cost on Ram would go a long way to hitting two birds with one stone in this regard.
Posts: 73
Overall, I find Soviet floats munitions like mad.
Abilities and upgrades are cheap, some, like SU76 Barrage, are even free.
Munition cost on Ram would go a long way to hitting two birds with one stone in this regard.
And that's something everyone should be able to agree with.
But removing the ram, is just no option atm (if they don't change anything about German Armor).
I mean, how fast do you get engine damaged anyway, and you can't execute a ram with engine damaged.
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I haven't seen an immobilize crit from a ram since beta opened up again, donno if that was changed. But as it stands unless you are ramming an out of position tank the T34 is more likely to die than the Ostheer player's vehicle, because the 34 is immobilized and doesn't have much HP to start with. All it does is buy time unless you've also set up a flank on the tank you are ramming, in which case you sorta earned the kill.
Ram could be removed if cost of russian AT gun was made something like 300.
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