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Relic, you gonna fix 120mm, or not?

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CieZ
16 May 2015, 20:37 PM
#241
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 May 2015, 20:06 PMKatitof

In this case we should just leave this thread as well as we pretty much have noting to add here.


There's really no way to defend the 120mm's current performance.

It is completely disgusting and batshit overpowered. No argument can refute that, sorry.

It badly needs a damage reduction.

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austerlitz
16 May 2015, 21:00 PM
#242
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 May 2015, 18:47 PMKatitof
^Because MHT is hard.

Every time I read your complaints and arguments I imagine you taking on combined arms with grenadiers only over the red cover. Tanks and infantry alike. Getting an ass whooped, and coming here, refusing that for vast majority of your balance issues you are the biggest problem.


Lol this again,how many times u gonna accuse one of grenspam minute he disagrees with you.Everyone playing knows 120 mm iwipe machine is imba atm.Unfortunately this forum lacks an ignore button.
The soviets are by far the strongest faction atm with massive cheese ,u know this too-just won't admit it that's all.
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Rollo
16 May 2015, 22:00 PM
#243
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Posts: 738

Relic will probably fix precision strike next patch and remove it from the game, the 120mm will still be ridiculous to try and counter though
Click for depression

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Burts
16 May 2015, 22:03 PM
#244
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 May 2015, 20:37 PMCieZ


There's really no way to defend the 120mm's current performance.

It is completely disgusting and batshit overpowered. No argument can refute that, sorry.

It badly needs a damage reduction.



Actually :snfPeter: there is. The soviet non doctrinal mortar is pretty bollocks :snfPeter:


If it didint have precision strike the 82 would be so shit :snfPeter:
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AchtAchter
16 May 2015, 22:28 PM
#245
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I made a thread about the 120mm some time ago. I suggested it getting decrewed with 1 guy remaining or make it function similiar to a pack howitzer & LeIG, means it can't retreat, but keeps its deadly potential.

I just hope the doctrine becomes less attractive in the future so we see it less often. PTRS + 120mm in the first weeks after the patch was the reason why I stopped playing the base game, alpha is great tough.
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CookiezNcreem
16 May 2015, 23:07 PM
#246
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 May 2015, 22:28 PMAchtAchter
make it function similiar to a pack howitzer & LeIG, means it can't retreat, but keeps its deadly potential.



Yes. Yes. YES. YES. YES. YES. YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE.

I dont even have a problem with it wiping everything,it fits the soviet cheese theme that relic obviously wont change.

But the most troll thing ever is when they just pack it up and roll away with 0 Fucks given,and then once retreated,set up,and fire FROM THEIR BASE at the spot I just made them retreat from!
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austerlitz
17 May 2015, 08:03 AM
#247
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Posts: 1705

Make it 500 mp,that way they can't make more than 1 and will have to sacrifice major field presence for it.
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RMMLz
17 May 2015, 08:46 AM
#248
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 May 2015, 16:08 PMWingZero


I beg to differ, all mortars have tendency of squad wiping due to squad bunching.


I also beg to differ, 120mm mortar has 100 damage, 6 AoE (1.1 near 4.5 far). 80 and 81 mortars have 80 damage (so technically can wipe a units), but AoE of 4 (1 near 3 far).

If a squad has full HP, if you consider the fall off damage of a 120mm shell, it has more wipe potential because the damage is equal or more than 80 in medium distance. But other mortars can only kill a model if the shell falls directly on top of a model. For a wipe you need all models to be closer than 1 distance unit.

And besides, this kind of isnta wipe is actually more punishing for non blobbing players.

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daspoulos
17 May 2015, 17:03 PM
#249
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Drop damage to 80
Precision strike being removed.
Decrewable at 1 man, not 0.
Price reduction to 360-380.
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MarcoRossolini
17 May 2015, 17:18 PM
#250
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The problem with nerfing it's damage is that there comes a point where it stops being a 120mm mortar anymore. Imagine the 88mm on a tiger or something being so nerfed into the ground so much that it becomes just like any other Pak 40. Everyone would be appalled.
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CookiezNcreem
17 May 2015, 17:26 PM
#251
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jump backJump back to quoted post17 May 2015, 17:18 PMMarcoRossolini
The problem with nerfing it's damage is that there comes a point where it stops being a 120mm mortar anymore. Imagine the 88mm on a tiger or something being so nerfed into the ground so much that it becomes just like any other Pak 40. Everyone would be appalled.



IT is though :foreveralone: tiger does 160 just like pak 40

IS2 does 160 just like T34/76 :foreveralone:

So why cant 120 do 80 like every other mortar :foreveralone:
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MarcoRossolini
17 May 2015, 18:34 PM
#252
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^^
And that's one of my biggest problems with the game currently. :(
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Arclyte
17 May 2015, 19:09 PM
#253
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jeez, you'd think the 120 was on par with the stuka the way some of these guys are whining. God forbid allies have a mortar thats better than the turbo 8cm

It should get decrewed at 1 man, like other mortars, and i'm not married to the precision strike. But beyond that it's a fairly tame unit. Nerf it any more and it will never get made (probably the goal for some of you)
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CieZ
17 May 2015, 19:15 PM
#254
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jump backJump back to quoted post17 May 2015, 17:18 PMMarcoRossolini
The problem with nerfing it's damage is that there comes a point where it stops being a 120mm mortar anymore. Imagine the 88mm on a tiger or something being so nerfed into the ground so much that it becomes just like any other Pak 40. Everyone would be appalled.


Sorry but balance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> realism.

80 damage on the 120mm would go a long way in helping balance it. No other unit in the game is better at absolutely EVERYTHING that it's counterparts.

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Arclyte
17 May 2015, 19:51 PM
#255
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It isn't "absolutely better than everything". It has literally half the rate of fire of the german mortar

you guys are blowing this way out of proportion
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Alexzandvar
17 May 2015, 19:56 PM
#256
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jump backJump back to quoted post17 May 2015, 19:51 PMArclyte
It isn't "absolutely better than everything". It has literally half the rate of fire of the german mortar

you guys are blowing this way out of proportion


When it barrages it has a very high ROF. Your also ignoring the fact it has much better range, scatter, and AoE while costing less than the Pak Howi and LeiG which are worse than it in every way.

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Highfiveeeee
17 May 2015, 20:02 PM
#257
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Posts: 1740

The problems are the following:

- It does more damage than any other mortar
- It has more range than any other mortar
- It usually can't be countered with other mortars because of range/precision strike/6 men
- It has 6 men and won't die with a man left unlike every other mortar.

The solution is to either nerf its damage/range OR make it more vulnerable.
Playing as Ost it is nearly impossible to kill a 120 mm mortar.
4 men left and retreating? Good luck chasing it down with an Ostwind, you won't wipe it.
It is though God by command has withdrawn every other throne.
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'

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daspoulos
17 May 2015, 20:32 PM
#258
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Thats why a cost decrease to 360 would be in order for dropping damage to 80. It still has highest 1 shot kill radius, range, accuracy, no tech, high survivability. Ever play ostheer there arclyte? Or okw vs guard motor?












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MarcoRossolini
17 May 2015, 20:43 PM
#259
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jump backJump back to quoted post17 May 2015, 19:15 PMCieZ


Sorry but balance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> realism.

80 damage on the 120mm would go a long way in helping balance it. No other unit in the game is better at absolutely EVERYTHING that it's counterparts.



I suppose then the problem is what we want from the game and there's not much we can do to change that really.

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roarr
17 May 2015, 20:57 PM
#260
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Not sure if making 120mm similar to regular mortar is a good idea. It would be another call-in unit that requies no building.

Since it's heavy mortar i think dmg and range is ok, but it should be more expensive, have no retreat just like AT guns, and get decrewed when only 1 man is alive. This would make it more high risk-high reward unit instead of cheap instant wipe machine, that can retreat with 1 crew member.

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