I miss the old guard,: where are they??

Havent read the thread just the title. I havent seen the old guard in the ladders so I guess being good at one game doesnt make you good at a sequel. Many of them are probably struggling down the ladders. And when you lose a lot of games it isnt fun to play anymore. Siberian analyses replays on sunday so they could send in some replays if they continue to struggle.

Havent read the thread just the title. I havent seen the old guard in the ladders so I guess being good at one game doesnt make you good at a sequel. Many of them are probably struggling down the ladders. And when you lose a lot of games it isnt fun to play anymore. Siberian analyses replays on sunday so they could send in some replays if they continue to struggle.

I approve of this message.

Except it's ignorant of the truth of the situation, which is that 99% of those players aren't "struggling down the ladders"; they aren't playing, period, because they don't like the game.

Except it's ignorant of the truth of the situation, which is that 99% of those players aren't "struggling down the ladders"; they aren't playing, period, because they don't like the game.

Always so serious Inverse...

Nah, just calling out ignorance when I see it

Nah, just calling out ignorance when I see it

Wouldn't you be ignorant of COH 2's competitive scene since you don't play it?

Didn't CoH 2s last big tournament have way more viewers than anything CoH 1 ever did? Just sayin'

I gave evidence to support my opinion. If you disagree with any of that evidence, please, feel free to say so, and to provide supporting evidence of your own

I gave evidence to support my opinion. If you disagree with any of that evidence, please, feel free to say so, and to provide supporting evidence of your own

I made a pretty long post last page, it was technically in response to Purlictor, but most of the evidence would be the same.

As far raw metric numbers go, comparing the total number of posts in a forum that has been around for 10+ years to one that has been around for two isn't quite fair. I guess active number of people, sure, but there were a lot less fansites around back then as well. Now there are the official forums, GR, relicnews, CoH2.org, reddit, etc. Probably some in other languages that I don't even know about. So it's kind of a hard comparison to make on that front as well.

As far as pure "esports" goes, CoH 2 has had tournaments with more money than COH 1 ever saw, and higher viewer numbers. The level of play argument is purely opinionated. There are some amazing CoH 2 players and they've provided us with some amazing CoH 2 games. Right now we're in a tournament drought, mostly because of how long/poorly balanced/unfun last patch was - but this current patch is pretty damn good.

Sure CoH 2 has some issues, but they're quickly dwindling. vCoH had its share of design flaws and issues. Rose tinted goggles and such. I just still can't comprehend why certain vCoH guys have to come into threads and start attacking CoH 2. Different games, different tastes. Similar to SSBM vs SSBB vs Sm4sh. I'm a SSBM purist but I've never hated on anyone for preferring SSBB and Sm4sh. (this part is not directed at you as much as other people.)

Sure, comparing number of threads posted is a bit of a stretch, but even if you break it down into threads per year the amount of CoH1-related strategy discussion is exponentially larger than similar CoH2-related talk. When you also consider the relative lack of replay activity and participation in competition-focused communities like this one, it goes a long way to suggest that fewer people are actively invested in the competitive scene. There was RelicNews and the official forums back in CoH1 too, but the people who were interested in competitive play went to GR, just like they go to COH2.ORG for CoH2. The difference in size between GR's CoH1 section and COH2.ORG in terms of raw user numbers is striking.

You're correct about CoH2 having more money in tournaments, but I'd argue that it's a bad sign that the community with less money in it appeared to be more engaged than the community with greater financial incentives. As for viewer numbers, the only hard figures I've personally seen compared SNF seasons 4 and 5, and showed season 4 (the last CoH1 season) as having both more viewers and more consistent viewer numbers. If you have hard numbers on more recent tournaments, I would be interested in seeing them.

There's no hate here, I don't care what people spend their time on or what they enjoy. I was simply presenting a potential line of reasoning for why former CoH1 competitive players lack interest in competitive CoH2, based on my personal opinion of the matter.

i didnt read all post from inverse fanatic and all the other old good/pro players(but many)

but slowly i can understand why all good player play only sometimes coh

i`m not the best player but i`m not a noob so i can say it is really boring to play coh1

so many noobs every time the sniper spam or stags from noob player
it makes really not fun to play againts it
i think coh died a little bit with brit release and it died then with the new buggy steam version (i bet all that relic did it intentionally cause they was knowing that coh2 is totally bullshit) .(coh2 coversystem 1 1/2 year after release )

then the last heart engraving i think was the end of The Frontline Network...

Tommy was really an important person for the community(Amipolizei funk is playing dota and not coh2 )



and then it was going slowly to the end.
the last good caster left the stage with fanatic...

since a half year 2v2 at is death
u rank againts noobs or allied combo brit abuse and u wait 1 hour for a game
in 2v2 random all full of barcounter and when u snipe then this barcounter with a teammate u rape allied combo on combo map in 20 minutes

and 1v1.....

How many accounts had bkmodtest and noggano in top 15??

10 i think



no lucky 1++++ for this post:
and this

background music when u readin this thread

i remember where inverse started to play coh2 with a clanmate on his stream
i remember exactly the situation inverse riffle lost nearly a fight againts a pio he said to his mate what is this for a bullshit and his clanmate welcome to coh2


Rip coh and wait hopefully for coh1 hd version or coh3

For me what made me leave the CoH franchise in general was that after CoH2 was released the CoH1 community shrunk a lot. I knew it would happen for sure even before the game was released, but I though I would just play CoH2 instead. After playing CoH2 though for the first time and the first few months I was very disappointed and most of the feedback many of the experts threw included me were discarded, I completely lost my will to play CoH2 after the state it was in and even after SNF5 was announced I tried to play it again and the "fuel"that made me play CoH1 so many hours after hours was not even close to being there.

So to answer OP's question, I am now playing LoL hoping to go pro with a challenger team (although its a long shot).

For me what made me leave the CoH franchise in general was that after CoH2 was released the CoH1 community shrunk a lot. I knew it would happen for sure even before the game was released, but I though I would just play CoH2 instead. After playing CoH2 though for the first time and the first few months I was very disappointed and most of the feedback many of the experts threw included me were discarded, I completely lost my will to play CoH2 after the state it was in and even after SNF5 was announced I tried to play it again and the "fuel"that made me play CoH1 so many hours after hours was not even close to being there.

So to answer OP's question, I am now playing LoL hoping to go pro with a challenger team (although its a long shot).

but anyway would be nice to see u sometimes online

coh1 is still the best game ever
but when u want be a lol pro gamer u have no time for coh
cause the opponents from asian are too strong i have heared

wish u the best... greetz.

but anyway would be nice to see u sometimes online

coh1 is still the best game ever
but when u want be a lol pro gamer u have no time for coh
cause the opponents from asian are too strong i have heared

wish u the best... greetz.

The west is catching up very quickly .

The west is catching up very quickly .

that sound good

much success on your way

Comebacks are still extremely difficult in CoH 2. Sure you are getting more manpower/minute but you have to push into squads that get to camp cover, you've almost surely bled more MP since you're losing, you don't have munitions for things like mines, off-maps, weapon upgrades, etc and you will be at a major fuel disadvantage. Come-backs are exciting to watch and keep people motivated to always try hard to win, even when they feel like they're in an unwinnable situation. Losing quickly because you can't even field an army is not fun for the players and it is not fun for spectators. The only way any game can be majorly competitive is if enough people like to spectate, because that is where the money lies.

Most comebacks happen when the opponent overextends and is too aggressive, same way as in CoH1. The alternative is often that they lose squads by over-the top RNG which has no place in a competitive game, no matter how much spectators like it. I can't say I've never had planes crash and wipe entire squads or having a pak snipe both the members of your sniper team.

Call-ins/heavies have definitely plagued the meta for a while, can't disagree with that, but hopefully Relic will address the issue in the future. We as the community have made our voices heard numerous times so the ball is in their court now. But to suggest that veterency is meaningless in CoH 2 is nothing short of completely ignorant. Vet is *extremely* important, and is probably the biggest deciding factor in games. I'm not sure I've ever seen a game where some one wins with a less vetted army...

You misunderstand because I wrote it badly, I meant to say that acquiring vet is meaningless in the way that you gain it without any effort and sometimes at an insane rate on some units (i.e. most infantry units, more-so if they have AT weapons). All you have to do is use the unit and you'll more often than not end up with vet2/3. The veterancy itself is indeed very important, which is why games in the late game can be decided by who gets a lucky squad wipe on a high veterancy unit.

It is hard sometimes to keep your squads alive but this patch is better than any other that I can remember in terms of squad wipes, thankfully this is something Relic can easily continue to improve upon.

Relic needs to add a button that toggles squad 'cover seeking' behaviour on/off. I don't see why Relic had to change the lethality of tanks vs infantry away from the CoH1 method which seemed to have a good balance.

If you're playing for the "save me RNG gods" squad wipes, sure you might win every once in a while, but it is easy enough to out-play people that this isn't really the meta at all.

If it's easy enough to outplay people then there is not enough competition, but in close games these things can and will decide the outcome.

CoH 2 commander system is way better than vCoH's doctrines. Sov and Ost have numerous viable commanders, USF/OKW are more limited, but they also have way fewer. (Off the top of my head for Sov: Guard Motor, Shock Rifle, Soviet Shock Army, Guards ISU, Shocks ISU, Tank Hunter, M4 Shermans, Advanced Warfare... plus a few more I'm probably forgetting) the top two are probably Guard Motor/Shock Rifle but the other commanders definitely have their place, and are in some situations better than the two most used.

Most of those are behind a pay-wall though. You are certainly correct in that Soviets have the most viable commanders (which follow the same structure of PTRS/PPSh and/or call-in, preferably both), but for ost and OKW I'm always suprised if I see less than 2 blues.

Rifles don't really have good supporting AT, you can easily get out teched - it happens all the time. That statement is just false =/

I highly doubt that, USF teching is very fast and almost always you'll be holding most of the map too. Rifle AT nades are pretty stupid sometimes, but at least obtaining ability is free. Soviets have an ATG in one of the very first buildings they can build. OKW can make do with T0 units until something heavier than a sherman comes out.

Your analysis of the current CoH 2 2v2 meta seems very wrong. Can't remember the last time I got a KT as OKW in a 2v2. Ost T3 is very viable, as are call-ins (of course). Soviet can do anything except T3 in my opinion - Shocks are Guards are both viable now.

The KT does indeed get wrecked since last patch with the armor nerf and jackson buff. Ost T3 is really map dependant, in my experience P4s just don't scale well enough against jacksons/su85s to be worth investing a lot into past the mid game, a but like soviet T3.

As for the level of competition in COH 2, if it is as nonexistent as you claim why aren't you and your mate even top 25 of the 1v1 or 2v2 ladders? Well, maybe you are under a different name? But I don't think insulting the top CoH 2 players with a blanket statement like that is wise. There are a lot of extremely skilled CoH 2 players.

Last tourney got less than 100 sign-ups afaik, I believe the massive 1k tourney got less viewers than last coh1 snf event (correct me if I'm wrong).

Besides, I personally have no interest in doing so because there are better games to get good at.

Last tourney got less than 100 sign-ups afaik, I believe the massive 1k tourney got less viewers than last coh1 snf event (correct me if I'm wrong).

200+ sign ups and the stream had around 60k unique views, much more than what SNF4 got.

That's pretty good. Has there been a proper tournament since then? I'm curious if that level of interest can be maintained.

With last tourney I meant star crossed cup. It got 600 viewers in the finals which is really good.

One thing I have noticed in coh2 is that streaming is a lot bigger now than it was in coh1. Nowadays some streams will often get close to 200 viewers whereas before you could get 100 at most.

That's pretty good. Has there been a proper tournament since then? I'm curious if that level of interest can be maintained.

what do you define as proper?

and referring to a few posts back. Streaming is way more popular than it was a few years ago with more viewers and more players being able to stream easily and you can't really use replay downloads as a metric of activity.

I mean something like that on the scale of an SNF season, not just a simple weekend tournament.

And yeah, by itself it doesn't really say anything. It's just a combination of a lot of different factors, that being one of them. There is, in general, less discussion about how to play well, less drive to produce content geared toward competitive play, etc. Based on your numbers there are more people playing and watching CoH now than in the past, yet there are less people participating in the game's competitive community. There are far less people active here than were active on GR. There's less proper discussion and more balance bitching. There are 16x more strategy threads on GR's CoH1 forums but only 2x more balance threads.

There might be more eyes, but there's dramatically less actual activity.