is2 and tiger ace

now inb4 i get called an axis fanboy from someone possibly ignorant, i believe is2 and tiger ace nerf is reasonable for both factions so take your time to read it if you want to call me a fanboy of anything:

is2 over perform for its cost. it kills tiger, panther (and yes they do kill panther tank hunter from tests), it has speed that's almost similar to med tanks, and kills infantry better than tiger. comparing the is2 to its counter partner tiger, it far out perform for its cost and beats the tiger at all range. i believe the resolution is to make it slower but a still faster than a tiger (its speed doesnt even make sense for a heavy tank), will lose against tigers and panthers but increase its AoE from its HE shots to kill infantry better.

the tiger ace on the other hand, is almost a free tiger for 800mp. it can simply be trashed to undo the penalty. there is really no harsh enough penalty that everyone mindlessly just summons the tank. the tiger ace can be extremely devastating on 1v1, where there are are many trades of tanks but a free tiger pops out for 800 mp. the resolution i believe is to make it cost 0 MP but permanently stops fuel income, cp reduced from 15 to 12. this will also make the doctrine more interesting as you actually need to THINK and DECIDE wither trading all future fuel income is worth it or not. the cp reduction gives player a chance to make that decision since 15 cp is very late into some games

15 cp is the point since it is such a powerful tank meant to tip the balance of power in favor of the user when a battle is at its peak. It used to cost no manpower and stopped all resources income until the end of the game. However at that time it was also ridiculously overpowered. I would rather not change Elite Troops for now since I think that it is in a spot where it can be used but not abused.

IS-2 is more durable, Tiger got more firepower.
Difference in penetration means nothing, because IS-2 is the only allied tank that can deflect tiger shots and IS-2 have much more targets it can bounce off.

Additionally, comparing units against one another is not an accurate comparison-both IS-2 and tiger perform well against what they are supposed to fight.

Tiger ace was a joke since day 1.

Just use a AT gun wall to fend off Tiger Ace if it ever appears, it works like charm, and we had IS-2 with 240damage and 9 sec reload for a while, it wiped squads and lost to Tigers and panthers due to a long reload time, and not a 100% guaranteed penetration when it hit a enemy tank, back then people complaided about IS-2 squad wipes all the time, do we really want to go back to that,

in its current form it has high scatter and you cant trust it to 1 shot infantry squads and it can fight vs armor aswell

I feel like the IS2 topgunner is sniping all the models? (more so than other topgunners)

imo there should be a limit how many you can call in. Maybe 1 or 2 per game!

Last games I played we killed like 3 IS2's 5mins another 3 arrive Kappa

IS-2 is more durable, Tiger got more firepower.
Difference in penetration means nothing, because IS-2 is the only allied tank that can deflect tiger shots and IS-2 have much more targets it can bounce off.

Additionally, comparing units against one another is not an accurate comparison-both IS-2 and tiger perform well against what they are supposed to fight.

Tiger ace was a joke since day 1.

The normal Tiger have more firepower? What's the reason for that, faster reload?

Faster reload, much better accuracy against infantry.
Better DPS against all but a single tank.

IS-2 and tiger don't fight each other exclusively with no support, you need to take into account what they shoot at and what is behind them.

Balance between them boils down to IS being a damage sponge and Tiger being firepower powerhouse.

now inb4 i get called an axis fanboy from someone possibly ignorant, i believe is2 and tiger ace nerf is reasonable for both factions so take your time to read it if you want to call me a fanboy of anything:

is2 over perform for its cost. it kills tiger, panther (and yes they do kill panther tank hunter from tests), it has speed that's almost similar to med tanks, and kills infantry better than tiger. comparing the is2 to its counter partner tiger, it far out perform for its cost and beats the tiger at all range. i believe the resolution is to make it slower but a still faster than a tiger (its speed doesnt even make sense for a heavy tank), will lose against tigers and panthers but increase its AoE from its HE shots to kill infantry better.

the tiger ace on the other hand, is almost a free tiger for 800mp. it can simply be trashed to undo the penalty. there is really no harsh enough penalty that everyone mindlessly just summons the tank. the tiger ace can be extremely devastating on 1v1, where there are are many trades of tanks but a free tiger pops out for 800 mp. the resolution i believe is to make it cost 0 MP but permanently stops fuel income, cp reduced from 15 to 12. this will also make the doctrine more interesting as you actually need to THINK and DECIDE wither trading all future fuel income is worth it or not. the cp reduction gives player a chance to make that decision since 15 cp is very late into some games

Here's a few problems with your argument;

- IS-2 over preforms for its cost, Well it doesn't its a good strong all around tank.
Armored assault is a trash doctrine despite having IS-2 whereas Shock rifle front-line is extremely
powerful. IS-2 by itself isen't op its fine the way it is. A damage soaker that can bully Panthers.

- Tiger Ace; What you are suggesting is a very strong buff to the TA, the MP/CP cost and MP penalty
Is what keeps Tiger Ace in line. 0 MP at 12 CP would be extremely broken for anyone half decent with the tank. With no manpower penalty the TA could be backed up with paks and all other kinds of support
because he has manpower to do so. Not to mention it would be out just in time for the IS-2.

Tiger Ace is fine the way it is. at 12 cp i wouldn't even think about it. I might push out 1 more tank to bring my fuel down to close to 0 or save it for vet. It would be a auto call in at 12 CP.

IS-2 is more durable, Tiger got more firepower.
Difference in penetration means nothing, because IS-2 is the only allied tank that can deflect tiger shots and IS-2 have much more targets it can bounce off.

Additionally, comparing units against one another is not an accurate comparison-both IS-2 and tiger perform well against what they are supposed to fight.

Tiger ace was a joke since day 1.

Kappa IS2 has more penetration as well 30 more, Tiger has 30 less

The Tiger is strong against basic mediums and infantry, but more of a liability against any sort of callin-centric play, which, you guessed it, is the meta. The IS-2 on the other hand pretty much only has the Elefant/Jagdtiger to fear and currently certainly performs its overall role better.

Kappa IS2 has more penetration as well 30 more, Tiger has 30 less

What is the average armor of allied tanks and axis tanks in comparison?
That penetration difference have any meaning exclusively if they fight one another, in all other casts Tiger have mostly 100% chance to pen.

while I don't agree with the representation of the is2 at all. Dual is2 is a lot better than dual tiger. Not hard to call in 2 if all you ever build is t2 and then bank on call ins. Dual is2s is practically the meta.

The Tiger is strong against basic mediums and infantry, but more of a liability against any sort of callin-centric play, which, you guessed it, is the meta. The IS-2 on the other hand pretty much only has the Elefant/Jagdtiger to fear and currently certainly performs its overall role better.

double paks with either a mine, faust, or stun. will be a dead IS2

double paks with either a mine, faust, or stun. will be a dead IS2

i no longer think pak is superior than zis after the pak fire rate nerf.
true that pak has slightly higher pen, fire rate, and accuracy but the fact that its green cover is removed makes it less survivable than a raketenwafer, as the racketenwafer can at least retreat.
considering the removal of green cover and the fact that it only takes 3 guys to die, is2 and kats can easily melt it down unless it has heavy back up.

IS2 and Tigers as a unit are fine imo, my gripe is with the call in meta, allowing easy replacement and reinforcement of heavy tanks.

I feel we should leave elite troops doctrine alone for now, as there are far more pressing things to look at. However I think the tank itself was poorly implemented from the start, I would honestly rather just swap it out for a regular tiger that you can vet up yourself.

IS2 and Tigers as a unit are fine imo, my gripe is with the call in meta, allowing easy replacement and reinforcement of heavy tanks.

I still want flanking their rear armour to work for mediums and not bounce a third of the time.

i no longer think pak is superior than zis after the pak fire rate nerf.

doesnt matter what u think. Double paks with a stunned or slowed is2 will kill it. unless u get un-lucky

Obviously it depends on a number of variables, but in my experience even double Paks with TWP will struggle to actually kill an IS-2 unless its poorly microed. They can contain it to a point, but thats it - not to mention Shock Rifle offers excellent abilites and synergies to clear out Paks.

yeah. the german paks are very weak with the green cover removed

Ooh you know, IS2 had an average historical reload of 28 seconds, tiger and panther had 11 seconds respectively. The IS2 wasn't a dedicated AT vehicle, it had the abilities, but was intended as an anti infantry/defence busting tank.Stop demanding it needs to be a tank killer when that wasn't even its primary function.. xd