A letter to Relic COH2 Game balance team

Many of your replies are the same as your original assertions. For example,



You have still failed to justify why your original proposal (6 man crew) will lead to more use of the LEIG. You have not explained what the problems with the LEIG are, and why your proposal will solve these problems.


For example, if the problem is that LEIG has terrible accuracy. Giving it 6 men or 100 men won't make it hit anything any better, so this will not solve the problem.

If the problem is that LEIG costs too much, so that it comes out too late to make an impact compared to an early game mortar, then giving it 6 men won't fix the problem.

If the problem is that the LEIG is too easily flanked because of its short range, why not a range increase?

If the problem is that the LEIG dies too quickly to counter barrage fire, then your proposal may be perfect.

But unless you clearly state the problem with a certain unit or mechanic and explain why your proposal will fix this issue, nobody will understand your point of view and take you seriously. Including the relic balance team.

If they do listen.

pretty sure what paul wants is just more ways to play the early game. right now the early game is very limited strategically what you can do as OKW. you only have the sturm kubel and volks to really work with. kubel can quickly become 240mp down the drain when the m20 or scout car comes, so you have to fall back on just sturms volks and maybe the mg34.

indeed, but USF has even less options. i have no fucking clue what relic was thinking when they designed those two factions, or really soviets either.

Dear Relic COH2 Game balance team:
Hi! My name is PauL.a.D. I am the host of HOI, Heart of Iron clan. Now I’m Ranked #1 Chinese in Coh2. (USF #1 OKW #6 Soviet #1 OSTHEER #1 in 1v1). There are a lot of Chinese player in this game and they LOVE it. However after last patch at March 31rst 2015, they made lots of complaint towards balance. Here are my opinions:
First: The core combatants of some factions got altered a lot in last patch.
Truck-push tactic got nerfed, which I’ll accept, but please my dear Relic. Please don’t nerf the truck to the ground. You are here to balance the game, not to destroy some of the tactic once and for all. I am the one who was well known to use truck-push effectively, but now. I am forced not to do so. I think truck’s Armor need to be set to 3.5, but instead truck killing award about 2000 exp, enough for any units to gain veteran. That will be good for balance. At least I can still truck-push it

1. Soviet SNIPER nerf: It’s good and reasonable, although I feel a bit down since I always like double sniper. Soviet sniper now cost 320MP.

2. Obersoldaten nerf : It’s reasonable but a bit too harsh, Guards troops with DP28 have more dps output than Ober with Mg34, and way cheaper and easy to get in early game. I think it’s better to set Mg34 at 40muni or buff the dmg back to 8. As for Mp44 upgrade, it’s still good, a better option than before. And I Think if there is an option that after OBER get the LMG34 and spend 90 muni more for 1 STG 44. That will be good idea. So it will be 1 LMG34 1 STG44 cost total 130 muni.


3. New Bulletin: OBER’s upgrade cost 8% less munitions.

4. Volksgrenadiers Vet 3 set to Passive Healing, -15% received accuracy.

5. LE IG 18 Infantry Support Gun now has 6 man crew.

6. King Tiger Set it 400 front armor. (when u have KT soviet should have enough fuel call in 2 IS2) and the vet 3 'Spearhead' ability now adding -15% reload + 10% range. Please IS-2 vet 3 -30% reload, +20% rotation speed, +20% speed, +20% ac/de-celeration and KT got nothing???
Set KT Cost 700 MP and 250 FUEL.

7. IS2- and TIGER I‘s main gun damage set it to 180. Please they are heavy tanks. 88mm and 122mm mean something, they CAN DEAL more dmg than 75mm or 3 inch gun

8. M4A3E8 set it to Front armor 235 rear 105. 720 HP. Cost 460 MP and 155 fuel. Please give USF a tank that can deal with panther. More powerful but more expensive .

9. All sherman’s smoke screen should cost 40 munitions.

10. Fallschirmjäger Now cost 400 MP to call in. Airborne Assault now cost 200 munitions.


11. 2CP - Signal Relay cost 30 munitions. Emergency Repairs cost 30 munitions . Anti-Tank (HEAT) Shells cost 35 munitions. Panzer IV Ausf J now comes with armor skirt and it cost 680 MP and 190 fuel. (Elite Armour Doc is just useless now, have some buff won’t hurt and is good for sale).

12. Infiltration Tactics cost 20 munitions.

13. Flak Emplacements do not cost popcap.

14. Stormtroopers now cost 400 MP to call in and it have 5 man, 10 pop. MP44 and anti tank combat package can upgrade at the same time. 60 munitions for 3 X MP44. 60 munitions for at package. Break supply line can now destroy cache at once. Break through now cost 30 fuel. Close the pocket now cost 180 munitions.


15. G43 package upgrade for Ostheer GRENS need to be more expensive but more powerful, G43 can now upgrade with LMG42 but cost more. Total 120 muni. (45 for G43 than LMG cost 75 or 60 for LMG than 60 for G43).

16. Command PZ IV now need 7 CP to call in.

17. Command Panther need 9 CP to call in. Coordinated Fire now cost 55 munitions.

18. PTRS Accuracy set to 0.20 / 0.40 / 0.50 (Don’t u think PTRS SPAM is way too OP???)

19. Pioneers Sight set to 40.

20. USF M2 FLAMER now COST 70 munitions.

21. USF BAR now cost 50 munitions. Cost 150 MP 25 fuel to unlock.

22. USF Bazooka now cost 55 munitions.

23. GUARDS DP LMG now COST 60 munitions.

24. Sturm Offizier’s force retreat now cost 45 munitions. And it will not inspires nearby units

25. SU-76 Now cost 250 MP 50 FUEL ,POP 7. PEN now 125/110/100 Light Artillery Barrage CD 40 seconds.

26. Sdkfz 251 don’t need Battle phase 2 to unlock Flame projectors.

Hope this letter will open a portal for us player to advice for Relic Balance team.


Live Long and Prosper


Written by -HOI-PauL.a.D.
Edited by -HOI-Yakumo Yukari.
Checked by some top ten player.

At least, it looks better than Relic's design/balance. mainly cause you know the game, units, and balance issues much better than the Relic's balance team, cause you actually play it but they don't

Truck pushing is a skill and when it went wrong you could be punished hard for that. Not many had a good truck pushing skill, indeed.

spios + truck hard countered the first minute or two of soviets and USF, depending on whether or not they tried to actually fight the thing without 3 or 4 units. total bullshit. it was a skill in the same way that ordering your unit into cover is a skill: it requires little risk/effort and has huge payoff. frankly i think pushing in general is pretty crap but i'll tolerate it later game.

I never truck pushed because I think it's unfair advantage since the truck is a free unit. If I need to push units out of cover/stop shooting so my Sturmpios can close in safely I use the kübelwagen for that.

Everybody has a different opinion about balance, even the best coh2 players, since game experience is a subjective impression.

If Relics internal numbers show that top level OKW early game has become too weak, I'm sure they will tweak some stuff indifferent from what the community says.

Funny how the typical 'I play allies only fanboys' accuse Paul of bias, even tough he is one of the best and most experienced players, especially if those are cowards who hide their playercards because it would expose how 'valuable' their opinion is.

Truck pushing is a skill and when it went wrong you could be punished hard for that. Not many had a good truck pushing skill, indeed.

man, a free unit that was incredibly small arms resistant took skill to push infantry around, destroy cover, or block bridges?



Further more not many people had truck pushing skill? How about everyone did because it was so skilless....



There was almost nothing you could do as a USF player against truck pushing, and Soviets if you got an early M3 even then you still did bridgeable damage to it. Worst case scenario you push your way to an easy first encounter victory and pull back the truck.

Please i'm interested what terrible excuses you have for truck pushing to be fair. What if my base mgs could also be moved around and used, those are structures who can win engagements for me

Oh wait, there are no legitimate excuses for it. Truck pushing is simply an unfair abuse being defended to its last while players accept it. Just like Slavery in the united states. Pretty unreasonable to think of anyone not white as an animal to be owned and yet there was a pointless war over sheer stubborness because the Southerners life style had to change.

As jesulin likes to say, its time for you to #adapt

man, a free unit that was incredibly small arms resistant took skill to push infantry around, destroy cover, or block bridges?



Further more not many people had truck pushing skill? How about everyone did because it was so skilless....



There was almost nothing you could do as a USF player against truck pushing, and Soviets if you got an early M3 even then you still did bridgeable damage to it. Worst case scenario you push your way to an easy first encounter victory and pull back the truck.

Please i'm interested what terrible excuses you have for truck pushing to be fair. What if my base mgs could also be moved around and used, those are structures who can win engagements for me

Oh wait, there are no legitimate excuses for it. Truck pushing is simply an unfair abuse being defended to its last while players accept it. Just like Slavery in the united states. Pretty unreasonable to think of anyone not white as an animal to be owned and yet there was a pointless war over sheer stubborness because the Southerners life style had to change.

As jesulin likes to say, its time for you to #adapt

I'm going to have to change the bingo card up again because this is comedy gold right here. Comparing Slavery to a game mechanic, jfc dude.

...its exploiting something that wasn't intended.

Developer intention doesn't matter.
It never mattered.
Masahiro Sakurai made one of the most beautiful games in existence in Super Smash Bros. Melee. Its depth and complexity is without limit, and he didn't meant to do it.
Does that mean it should not be?
Of course not.
Developers are not the end-all be-all.
Perhaps this line is convenient for you, since you have a vendetta against this tactic, but it's pure folly.

some ideas i agree and some i am not sure, i wont say much because i dont play as much as you do. i just want add few of my thoughts

I think OKW trucks should just be removed and let stormpoi to build it on the battlefield instead.

i think BAR need a little nerf on DPS, i know Gren's LMG is strong but it can't fire while move there is quite alot way to force grens to move so it can't fire, while BAR can fire at anytime, and BAR spam just kills infantry too fast especially when pathfinder using it. I feel this when i play USF or against it.

Also Alied AT gun need some buff, it is just too weak right now and useless against panthers or even P4. I had a game yesterday that 3 USF AT guns firing at side of a panther is still scratching it and another time a P4 run into my AT guns, 3 AT guns fired 4 rounds each at him all hits, that is 12 shots on P4, and P4 still have almost half hp and drove off.

well good post anyway just first section shouldn't talk about truck pushing as everyone just trolling on that

Just like Slavery in the united states. Pretty unreasonable to think of anyone not white as an animal to be owned and yet there was a pointless war over sheer stubborness because the Southerners life style had to change.

lmfao, You made my day dude! keep up the good work!

(the rest of ur comments, are too dumb to respond)

indeed, but USF has even less options. i have no fucking clue what relic was thinking when they designed those two factions, or really soviets either.

the thing is USF actually doesnt need as many options because their important units unlock rather quickly and they can handle a variety of situations with the units on hand. riflemen are quite strong throughout the early and mid game, and they can continue the aggression with lts and light vehicles, where as okw has relatively easily beaten units in the early game and then struggle to get out relevant vehicles. the majority of their DPS is focused around the sturmpioneers which can be focused down pretty easily by the more numerous rifles, and as paula mentioned rifles beat volks grenadiers pretty much all the time on a 1 to 1 basis.

I hope this letter passes our editing room first.

I'm not eating it

I'll give that to one of the Greens...

There had to be at least one moment where a desperate, stopped truck driver started accelerating and forced the infantrymen trying to capture him to dodge it, right?

Obviously not a Soviet one, or Relic would have based the entire campaign around it

Friend made a bingo card for .org, almost got bingo right on the first two pages lol

That's legitimately funny

Would be even better if they didn't complain about spelling mistakes then misuse "to" with only one "o"

Hey, Paul, here are my thoughts:

1. Some ideas are ok, like I agree KT nerf and Obersoldaten + LMG nerf was a little to harsh. Or I can be ok with the currnet stats but a little price decrease for these units would have been more than sensible;

2. Some ideas are realy childish and I am surpised that they come from such a good player. Based on this, I don't know if you are aware of this, but I'll say it anyway: people are arguing with you and your ideas but they still keep a limit. I don't even want to imagine if such ideas were posted by a player that doesn't have your stats. He would have been trolled and trashed in 50+ forum pages in every thinkable way, some people here are far beyond unreasonable.

3. All in all, it's somewhat ok to see that there are people (and among highest ranked) who are aware of the fact that "balance" doesn't meen "nurf Axis" on constant basis. This army of allied whiners is a bad thing for balance.

And no.... truck pushing is not a tactic

I would be more okay with a "buff" to trucks/truck pushing if there were more of an impact on the OKW early game for losing that first truck. I feel like, both during the few OKW games I've played and when I play against them, that a replacement truck comes so quickly that the impact of losing a truck in the first few minutes of the game (where truck pushing is actually relevant) is pretty much nil.

Truck pushing is annoying but its not really abusive - certainly not as bad as the old, instant-decap-a-point-and-run-away tactic you could pull off with the CoH1 Kettenkrad. I just want either a cost to be associated with a replacement truck or an increased dispatch time for it if the first one is destroyed.

As for all of Paul's other points... I hate to say it but I'm (mostly) in agreement.

Nobody cares Alex, blog some where else.

Don't be a jerk. That was funny.

This thread only reinforces my conclusion that top level players opinions are no better then the average player.

Always interesting to read the top players' opinions!