Ostheer balance

Reverting the shrek change and allowing one panzershrek to be purhcased at a time - but keeping the 60 muni cost - would help a lot with making the standard conscript +/- t1 into T34 spam a lot less difficult to play against, as three MP44s is still pretty lethal vs infantry.

Beyond maintaining the anti-inf capacity of the shrek squad, it would allow for better flanking of enemy armor as you can spread out your shreks, and it also would let your shreks stay on the field longer overall.

Totally agree with this. I think that the HT price should be raised too, to prevend that HT spam early game, its so cheap.

I actually don't mind the prices on the vehicles, I think that keeping the MP cost for the t1/t2 vehicles low encourages light vehicle play in the late game, which is a good thing.

That being said, the scout car could perhaps be 100/25 or 100/30 instead of 80/20 like it is now. But I'm not sure.. 20 fuel is frequently a minute worth of fuel income, which is a significant delay added to the T34 timing.

Decrease Ostwind to 40-50 fuel, increase T34 to 90-100 fuel.

Disagree. teching is still too cheap fuelwise, tanks have to keep beeing expensive in fuel, especially anti-inf tanks. Having some cheap T3 unit fuelwise like an officer or special infantry or somethig would be nice but dont think it will be added at this stage anyways, as T1-T3 u will often have to keep buiding T1 units to not float in MP.

T34 is still very weak for its pure anti-tank performance and has to stay cheap fuelwise, only its RAM ability makes it ridiculous atm. Actually, many people use it only to RAM and then finish the german armor with the conscripts+guards blob (which I agree is kinda too strong). I would like RAM only destroy engine OR main gun but never both and see T34 more penetration increased, especially T34-85.

I would like to add 5 things:
- german AC has become quite useless, except upgunned maybe to counter ClownCar
- HT flamer should require T3 (as many people said earlier) as it still usefull late game due to its reinforcment and vet capacity but too hard when coming too early
- really like the ATguns nerfs that allow less static gameplay
- Agree on what DanielD said about shreck upgrade
- Im still not convinced by T70 and Su76

the t70 is just to weak for what it should be doing, by the time you get t3 out it is simply better to wait a little while and get a t34.

what do people think about shifting it to t2 and making it slightly weaker?? its a hard counter to the flaming half track but i fear it would simply be to strong for the germans to handle and the fact that i doubt anyone would go special rifle command when you could go t2 and rush an early t70.

Any other suggestions as to how to make the t70 worthwhile?

An unlock within T3 which gives access to the T-34 tank. Reduce the cost of the T3 building slightly.

I actually really like it as a unit but as it is, almost no situation you rather have it over it's bigger brother.

Making Clown Car less viable would free up resources for a faster T70.

any less viable and the only people useing it would be to smash noobs. 1 panzer faust to the rear is all you need, and considering you dont even need to tech the faust i consider clown cars in a really good position atm

The fact that they are currently not only being used to smash noobs begs to differ with that conclusion.

which is why i said "any less viable" as in IF they got worse.

Considering relative cost and stats to the AC, ontop of which the "free" open garrison, I cant agree.

I must admit I've found the T70 very handy on maps like Pripyat for dealing with Flame HT and supporting Paks/Mgs. The relative speed of it makes it viable to circumvent defensive lines easily.

Although I do agree that if you are in a situation where you either have the option to choose T70 or wait for T34 then the T70 becomes obsolete. It doesn't cope well when heavy armour hits the field.

In regards to the scout car, I find it not enough reward to investment ratio ATM - especially with those heat-seeking conscript AT nades that make effective micro almost impossible at times. I mean it's good for hunting down snipers (or taking down OPs in a few shots like in the beta) but if I want a vehicle that has to stay at the back I can get a command tank or a mortar HT...

I think that, if the Conscript vs Gren dynamic was balanced more, a lot of these things would be easier to fit in.

I still feel infantry is way too damn resilient to small arms fire. Once we get that out of the way, manpower won't flow as much, and while you may reach the fuel requirement early on, you'll have to make the decision between reinforcing or bringing in new tech.

That is, unless, you have played your cards right, and have won your engagements intelligently (but that's not balance, that's just being better).

I only just started but I only play Ostheer and I really like the Panzer Grenadiers with about 3 flamethrower equipped engineers.
The PGs are great in packs, about 3-4 will take down anything in one volley and can really halt a armor column. Especially with the sprint upgrade I got from the infantry commander their mobility really throws them off.

But I only play 6-8 player matches. I haven`t really seen what it`s like managing 1v1 but I really never go past the first HQ upgrade.

Ammo is never really a problem for me, if your allies for some reason don't understand that you can upgrade basic command posts then do it yourself. More command points for you and about a 70+ ammo flow without monopolizing the entire map.

If you don't upgrade your at a incredible disadvantage and you need to learn how to counter it, I think ammo upgrading command posts aren't that stressful.
That's about all I can really think of for advice.

Its not about " ohhh i loose against russians, they are op !! ", cause i've played both factions, and here are my results : i'm a way better player at ostheer than russians, less things to manage and more micro than flanking but i loose like 9on10 times with ostheer and i get 6/7on10 win ratio with russians that i see i dont manage them well.

Russians get early advantage, like US did in vanilla, but the problem is that back in vanilla, germans had hard counter to M8, rifle spam, now as the T34 spams you had to choose either to spend 120 muni on double panzerschrecks (i would have never done that as a vanilla wher = loose one shreck for sure at one moment of the game) making them less effective against inf = they loose any 1v1 against middle game russians. I feel that germans dont have really anything to deal with armor AND inf AT THE SAME TIME, when i counter their tanks i got brainfarts managing inf vs inf cause its just coming from evrywhere ... dont tell me " learn to play its just the begining ", i never had problem managing mutliple units back in vanilla, was lvl 13 with wher, and when the m8 was coming very quick , or a quick sherman, that meant that their inf would be weak. Now, without the veterancy system, you have to deal with equal lvl infantry, but superior armor : i explain myself

When i mean superior armor its chronologically : yes ostheer have better tanks, but they come soooo late, that at a T moment, russians would be more likely to have a better tank than you.

Another "complain" on this balance problem, is the map that are mostly 2v2 ones, wiht large scale, wich didnt really fit for a german player as you get flanked from evrywhere, again the map are quite busy with objects evrywhere, and you speend quite too much time on dodging trees than on fighting, maps need some "battle areas" with hard covers and red ones : places where the game is decided.

I hope other have the same thoughts as me, and lets be constructive, don't " russians are op" or the opposite and don't " evrything will go perfect after the patch"

1. I really recommend not comparing this to CoH1. The Ostheer-Soviet balance should not be compared to US-Wehr, it just doesn't work like that.
2. Panzershreks are great against infantry, they blow up models at point blank range and a shrek squad can inflict casualties on their Guard counterparts at a much higher efficiency. That's not to say they're amazing at AI, but they're by no means useless.
3. To counter "Flanking", spend 150MP+60 munis for an MG42 bunker and you can close off one flank for a solid part of the game. Depending obviously on positioning.

"3. To counter "Flanking", spend 150MP+60 munis for an MG42 bunker and you can close off one flank for a solid part of the game. Depending obviously on positioning."

Ive been experimenting with exactly this, in 1v1, to some good effect. Especially now that I can build them with Grens as well. There are a number of locations with good open fire arcs covering multiple objectives and terrained flanks that, when positioned, allow me to concentrate force elsewhere and allow time to rush down with HT mounted infantry.

Admittedly I play at relatively low level though, and teching thresholds in higher lvl play may not allow the immobile expenditure.

"3. To counter "Flanking", spend 150MP+60 munis for an MG42 bunker and you can close off one flank for a solid part of the game. Depending obviously on positioning."

Ive been experimenting with exactly this, in 1v1, to some good effect. Especially now that I can build them with Grens as well. There are a number of locations with good open fire arcs covering multiple objectives and terrained flanks that, when positioned, allow me to concentrate force elsewhere and allow time to rush down with HT mounted infantry.

Admittedly I play at relatively low level though, and teching thresholds in higher lvl play may not allow the immobile expenditure.

I use this in compliment with a roaming MG-42, it's often very easy to foretell where the Sov will push next and with what. Usually I'll also have an AT mine placed at the riverbank (Pripyat), so I tend to not use Rifle Grenades at all for a while, instead relying on suppression to win engagements.