Relic: All About Balance!

http://blogs.companyofheroes.com/2015/03/31/all-about-balance/





As our community is undoubtedly aware, we pushed an update to Company of Heroes 2 today. If you’ve not yet read them, the patch notes for this update can be found right here.

On the heels of this update, we wanted to take a quick moment to discuss the topic of Balance. Likely the most heavily debated topic within our community, balance-related discussions have been known to spark intense conversation. As a critically important element of any online multi-player game, it makes sense that our players would be so passionate about it. So just what do we at Relic think of balance, how do we determine when to make changes, and what can you expect from us in the future?

All For One and One For All

Our aim with balance changes has always been to help improve the overall health of the game. This means that we need to ensure that our changes improve the gameplay experience for all of our players. We are more intently focused on making changes and adjustments that will have a positive impact on our entire game-playing population, not just a dedicated but small minority of our player base. This can sometimes mean that while it may seem obvious to some that a certain change is necessary, it may not be our top priority nor even a good idea in terms of changes to make. Our focus has always been on what we refer to as ‘Big Meaningful Changes’.

It’s (Sometimes) a Numbers Game

We’ve said this before, but it’s certainly worth repeating. When reviewing feedback from our community, we have to ensure that we are also pairing that feedback with statistical data and analytical findings. That may sound like a super flowery way of saying we’re looking for reasons to not listen to you, but this is not the case. Here’s two examples of how this process works:

Flow #1 – Community Identified Balance Issues

We identify a key trend that the community is discussing
We go to the Business Insights team we have here at Relic, and have them run reports on the relevant in-game metrics
We review the findings of this analysis to determine if the numbers back up comments we are seeing within the community
Our team then works to resolve any issues that have been identified. This is really where the ‘hard’ work starts, with our design team spending time focusing on in-game play and researching possible solutions.
Testing, testing, testing.
When working to resolve issues, our Design Team likes to use a ‘Search and Destroy’ process:

Search – look for the core issue to the problem discover and generate multiple solutions
Destroy – Narrow down to 1 solution that is yields the best result and test with the Alpha group
Iterate – Fine tune the values and get it ready for a patch

Knowing the ‘What’ But Not Necessarily the ‘Why’

We’ve found that our community is exceptionally good at finding problems that need to be resolved. And why not? You’re the most passionate and active group of people when it comes to our products. So what happens if the data that we pull does not match up with the feedback that we’re seeing from our community members? In these situations, we’ve found that our community has still successfully identified a problem, but not necessarily the correct solution or even the true root cause of the issue being discussed. If data pulled does not back up what we’re seeing in our forums, we don’t abandon this feedback. Our team instead investigates possible parallel problems and solutions. Perhaps the actual issue being discussed is the result of a different problem, not the problem itself. It’s been through this process that a lot of our balance changes and updates have come about. In a way, this is us ensuring that we are always treating the illness and not the symptoms.

Flow #2 – Relic Identified Balance Issues

A member of our design team identifies something they feel needs attention
Similar to Flow #1, we still go to the Business Insights Team to research our hypothesis.
We review the findings of this analysis to determine if the numbers prove out our theories.
If yes, we work to resolve these issues in the same way we resolve community-raised concerns. (See the ‘Search and Destroy’ steps above)


Testing, testing, testing. Always an important step!
Infinite Cosmic Power – Itty Bitty Living Space?

We’ve seen a lot of concern from our community specifically focused around the OKW faction, and sentiment that it is far too over-powered. Our team has been doing extensive research and play testing surrounding this, and we will soon be sharing some in-depth data with our community regarding our findings. What we found may just surprise you! This is an entire blog post unto itself, so stay tuned for that in the coming weeks.

thank you relic and thank you nigo

Let's looking forward to the next six-month patch.

It´s 1.april, so i refuse to take this serious...

It´s 1.april, so i refuse to take this serious...

It's not April 1rst in Vancouver yet, which is where our offices are located

cool. nice communication.

Very cool. Thanks Relic.

They are pulling a blizzard in other words,

"We know whats fun and whats not fun and you will enjoy how we change the game"

A lot of company's have been taking this approach lately, Namely Riot and Blizzard.

A individual who immediately comes to mind is a gentleman named
Jay Wilson. He was the head developer of Diablo III at release.
Who made the game 'Fun' their own terms (The dev team) and ending up making one of the worst gaming disasters of recent history.
(A lot of BS came down from on top too, And i feel like its happening in this case as well)

Ironically he worked on CoH before being hired by Blizzard.

I know SEGA has got you guys by the balls but from a consumer standpoint
who is interested in this game i would hope you guys would at least make your beta's public and communicate with us more.

Some balance changes like in LoL for instance last year there was a huge nerf on a champion in the game called Pantheon.

But because the beta and dev's were in communication with the community it avoided a disaster.
(Edit: not a beta but a public PTR)

(Not sticking up for riot they have many things that are non viable but at least they try.)

Please please communicate with the community, The people who play your game. You will get more data from us then you ever will internally.

It's not April 1rst in Vancouver yet, which is where our offices are located

Ahja, well...
Someone who is stating that "This means that we need to ensure that our changes improve the gameplay experience for all of our players. We are more intently focused on making changes and adjustments that will have a positive impact on our entire game-playing population, not just a dedicated but small minority of our player base."

...And then still forces players into 160 games of being placed against random ( random can mean top 100)players to determine their skill-level can´t be taken serious, even if it´s not 1.april.

So I feel sorry if this sounds offending but... This is a still a steaming pile of flowers ...yeah .. flowers.

This is a game with a steep learnig curve, so why is a beginner placed against someone from the top 10?

I play chess since my childhood but I would never even think about playing against kasparov or anandt. Why should they even want to play against me?
Seriously, the problem at hand is not realy about balance between units it´s more likely a HUGE falure by design in the matchmaking.

I know I will not get any response to this, because of "soon" "nda" "we are excited".. but It would all be so much more comfortable for your community to be placed vs. equally elo players then to be placed against much higher eleo because of A.: the dude waited for x amount of time so the elorange got widened by the ohso wise matchmaking or B.: there is a new dude and matchmaking decides to put him in a match vs. high elo players or a high elo team with random teammates witch is the worst definition of gameplay you can think of.

Look at chess, look at other games (that are maybe succesfull at esport) there is a reaon why you don´t find "+50" winningstreaks there and that reason is not "balance between units" it´s the matchmaking that makes the difference, actually it´s the matchmaking that makes the game.

I am not intentionaly saying your latest patch is bad, in fact there are some changes i realy like, but the real issue this game has is the matchmaking.
The matchmaking is the real showstopper for the "average-joe" like me. I am not pro, not even looking at every single guide or trend in the meta. When I use the matchmaking Iam not taking it real serious, I want to have a fun game . This cant happen when I am placed against dudes that are playing since this game was in beta. If you think 2 seconds about it and maybe played a few matches you come to the same conclusion as me (and maybe many other newer players).

Fix the matchmaking means fixing the game.
Maybe introduce leagues or whatever, at least have a look and maybe tweak the matchmaking.

Sorry for the wall of text, but i was in the mood ...

Numbers are a terrible way to balance. Majority of the players are bad. Any statistics taken from this majority is not representative of what is happening between players that are good (good meaning players that both understand the game and have micro skills high enough to put it in practice).

It's interesting to get some idea of how the balancing process works. Still, I'd like to know why so much time passes between the balance patches, even if it's as quotidian as "it costs too much money" or "everyone is working on something else."

Hah, I found making developers butthurt after dumpstering them using lame flavour of the month strats made them make changes pretty quick. Especially if you dumpster them on live stream.

Hi Peter and the Kubel, Truck Pushing, Ostheer Strafe Spam, Stuart Stun Rounds, Pak Stalling and various other strats he nerfed the shit out of because he got owned in one game.

He would go on about data and all that jazz 24/7 until he actually played a game, got mad and made rage changes.

Nice to read something that gives hope that we probably won't have to wait another half year for the next balance patch. Looking forward to the data.

Testing, testing, testing.

Like these:

http://www.coh2.org/topic/32842/new-patch--new-bugs

Personally I love the one which vehicles get stuck when you call them in. Is the play testing uses different versions of maps/units?

The patch is good and everything, but regarding the "Flow" which includes the community, if they bother to take a closer look at the Issue tracker they will find out that there are A LOT of balance/technical problems which can be fixed in a blink of an eye.

Numbers are a terrible way to balance. Majority of the players are bad. Any statistics taken from this majority is not representative of what is happening between players that are good (good meaning players that both understand the game and have micro skills high enough to put it in practice).

exactly. and they are spreading balance from 1v1 to 4v4 which will actually make more angry players xD
#shittylittlecompany #EXCITED #<DRINK>

Hah, I found making developers butthurt after dumpstering them using lame flavour of the month strats made them make changes pretty quick. Especially if you dumpster them on live stream.

Hi Peter and the Kubel, Truck Pushing, Ostheer Strafe Spam, Stuart Stun Rounds, Pak Stalling and various other strats he nerfed the shit out of because he got owned in one game.

He would go on about data and all that jazz 24/7 until he actually played a game, got mad and made rage changes.

Funny story

I expected more of the patch. They have not addressed these two important things, outstanding things that should correct relic:
-Kubels
-Truck-Health, Ambulance/Major: These things favor the blobbing. Travel times are reduced between bases and destination.

I really, really appreciate that blog post.

Thanks relik.

If these are your methods, why have you not changed anything about the call-in meta?

They are pulling a blizzard in other words,

"We know whats fun and whats not fun and you will enjoy how we change the game"

A lot of company's have been taking this approach lately, Namely Riot and Blizzard.

A individual who immediately comes to mind is a gentleman named
Jay Wilson. He was the head developer of Diablo III at release.
Who made the game 'Fun' their own terms (The dev team) and ending up making one of the worst gaming disasters of recent history.
(A lot of BS came down from on top too, And i feel like its happening in this case as well)

Ironically he worked on CoH before being hired by Blizzard.

I know SEGA has got you guys by the balls but from a consumer standpoint
who is interested in this game i would hope you guys would at least make your beta's public and communicate with us more.

Some balance changes like in LoL for instance last year there was a huge nerf on a champion in the game called Pantheon.

But because the beta and dev's were in communication with the community it avoided a disaster.
(Edit: not a beta but a public PTR)

(Not sticking up for riot they have many things that are non viable but at least they try.)

Please please communicate with the community, The people who play your game. You will get more data from us then you ever will internally.

Yeah, it was kinda difficult to critique them based on what they wrote since all of it made perfect sense. So you just made up your own stuff and startad complaining about that. Well done.