Someone needs to explain some Ostheer issues for me

Having played a bit more CoH2 since I bought it on sale god knows how long ago I've come across so many things that really don't make sense for Ostheer.

The first is well, why is Ostheer so weak? Now we can all argue that late game you can have commanders with very powerful game changing tanks, but why is every single stage of the game leading up to this point so ridiculously challenging just to survive? People claim that Close Air Support is the cheesy OP way to get ahead in the game, but surely having to use an ability just to give grenadiers much needed upgrades to have some sort of staying power have something to do with the faction design?

No light vehicles from tier 1. As a CoH1 player this just baffles me, all factions have access to them bar USF with the need of a commander call in, which leads onto the next glaring issue. Lack of counter sniping opportunities. Who's idea was it to make soviets have 2 man sniper squads without giving the same to Ostheer? I'm certain I won't be the first person to see this but, the Ostheer sniper is almost made redundant because counter sniping is almost impossible because of this issue. So with Soviets getting a free pass to mess up with their sniper since they have 2 man squads, direct counter sniping is incredibly hard and unforgiving. Now if Ostheer does not have a sniper there are also no light vehicles to call upon unless you fast tech to an AC but soviet anti-tank grenades will prevent this.

Next up is the MG42, the iconic German machine gun which made it a staple in almist every build in CoH1 however now when compared to other MG's in this game it pales in comparison, and surprisingly its one and only job of suppression doesn't really have much of an effect on infantry after a few bursts, in which it is quite easily flanked.

Mines is another issue that seems to be out of place in this game. I can understand that as Ostheer is a defensive orientated faction in the early game, mines are also essential in preventing flanks. However why don't they have access to an all purpose mine that does damage to infantry and will do some minor damage and damage the engine to heavy armour? I feel like this is linked to many of Ostheer's shortcomings in this game which severely falls behind the other factions.

All in all, this effects essentially what starting build order Ostheer has available. Snipers are a no go, MG's seem to just act as flank bait and not do much else which just leaves Grenadier spam to mid game and hope for the best. I feel like I must be missing something because whenever I try and find a relatively safe build order and trying to hold the portion of the map to survive the early game is very difficult.

TL,DR
Effective counter snipe options?
Why are MG's so bad?
Mines somewhat useless.
Grenadier spam the only way?
How can one make a working safe build order to survive without being within an inch of losing the whole way.

Counter sniping doesnt happen much in coh2, theres usually better ways to rush a sniper. HOWEVER, it is possible with German one because if you put him in green cover, he will snipe and re cloak so fast, the Soviet team cant aim in time. Also at vet 1, his incendiary ability should one shot the team.


The MG is slightly underperforming because it got spammed in past which was too effective thanks to support weapons capping while set up. It does still work, but NEEDS to be behind some grens.

S MINES aint so bad, if you can afford them, they create quite good area denial until some sweepers come. So they work best in a defensive manner so you can keep sweepers away, use them to protect a flank or your cut off. Also you can lay some and cancel after 1st patch built to one place one square.


Light vehicles can have some impact so long as you play cautious, dont let them AT nade you.


Werh's biggest weakness imo is 4 man squads causing easy wipes, so cover is more important than any other faction. Even then cover tends to make them bunch up, so still rubbish if high explosive hits em.

mgs in general can be a little naff when a few squads can just run straight into the arc and kill them. However, the mg42 definitely isn't the worst. Its very arguably the best of the bad bunch.

TL,DR
Effective counter snipe options?
Why are MG's so bad?
Mines somewhat useless.
Grenadier spam the only way?
How can one make a working safe build order to survive without being within an inch of losing the whole way.

Effective counter snipe options?

Counter sniping like in CoH1 is not an option in CoH2 due to two man Soviet Sniper squads as you mentioned. If your Ostheer Sniper reachs veterancy 1 he can instantly kill one squad member of Soviet Sniper by using his ability and then immediately counter snipe the other member. I highly doubt if this scenario ever happens though. Your chances to get rid off Soviet Snipers in early game are flanks, rifle grenades, lucky mortar hits or 222 rushes. All of these options can be dodged by diligent Soviet players though. So if you fight versus Snipers you know your opponent spent much manpower in each Sniper squad (360 MP) which means you should build more Grenadiers to push aggressively forward since he lacks map presence. Then going for 222 and fast tech to T3 let sniper heavy strategies break down.


Why are MG's so bad?

MG42s have once been quite powerful supressing squads extremely swiftly and dealing much damage to them. But these days MG42s do not fulfill their task appropriately. They neither supress well nor deal a reasonable amount of damage. Supressing not well results in squads just running straight against MG42 and throwing nades at them forcing MG42s to retreat which must not be the case. I think the problem concerning damage is the fact that squads being supressed by MG42 receive mechanically less damage by MG42s. Increasing their supression would turn them viable again. Furthermore, many maps do not favour MG42s since you can flank them too effortlessly.


Mines somewhat useless.

Mines comparable regarding costs and tasks to those you know from Wehrmacht and US in CoH1 exist within the factions Soviet Union and Oberkommando West. United States Forces have exclusively access to anti tank mines if they tech up to Lieutenant and produce M20 utility vehicle which is able to lay down anti tank mines. Ostheer Teller mines are comparable to M20's anti tank mine. Both inflict huge damage upon vehicles which approach them and induce engine damage unless they onehit the respective vehicle. S-mines can be considered to be used as defensive mines since opponent is warned by signs. Thus placing S-mines aggressively but not guarded results in your opponent upgrading mine sweepers and just sweep them. Laying down S-mines on flanks or guarded areas is recommandable. Laying down Tellers on roads or approaches on which you think vehicles will drive is the way to use Tellers. It is quite different from what you are used to in CoH1.


Grenadier spam the only way?

No, you will still need weapon teams to play Ostheer victoriously. In some maps Grenadiers only results in being stomped by Rifleman or Conscript spam into Shock troops. One MG42 and Granatwerfer Team is a viable option. MG42s grant you supression which helps Grenadiers to beat Rifleman and mortar allows you to clear buildings or weapon teams. Some players spam Grenadiers in combination with flamer Pioneer spam whilst using Closed Air Support Doctrine to convert fuel into munitions.


How can one make a working safe build order to survive without being within an inch of losing the whole way.

To compensate Ostheer weaknesses and bad map design most players choose Mechanised Assault Doctrine. This doctrine allows you to call in StuG Version E which is quite effective versus infantry of any kind. You also gain access to Tiger. To save fuel for Tiger it is common to tech up to T2 as maximum. Producing 4 Grenadiers, one MG42, 2 PaK40s and one or more StuG E is a viable strategy to survive until Tiger arrives. Teching to T3/T4 to produce tanks in these techs is unviable since Panzer IV arrives shortly before Tiger could arrive. So why producing a PIV when you can have a Tiger a little bit later? Ostheer teching is out of place these times due to high costs and better options being available at the same time.

Nicely written Theo, not really much to add here. Ostheer is probably the most interesting faction to play with. It's really rewarding winning a game using combined arms instead of just using mindless infantry spam.

What are your opinions on getting a 251 HT to sustain sniper bleed? I found it really helped me with mapcontrol but sometimes it just bled all my manpower for getting a pak and tiger at the time most needed

What are your opinions on getting a 251 HT to sustain sniper bleed? I found it really helped me with mapcontrol but sometimes it just bled all my manpower for getting a pak and tiger at the time most needed

I have barely used 251 versus Sniper since I find it more comfortable to spam Grenadiers and swarm out to capture territory as well as flank. Snipers cannot be everywhere and Soviet player lacks field presence. Then going for 222 as soon as possible seems best for me. In every map which has enough LoS blockers I prefer this approach instead of 251. Only in some special cases like Langreskaya North I'd go for 251.

I think Ostheer are great at all times.The long range combat with grenadiers or the close range combat with assault grens is very rewarding and the affects it will have will play a big role later in the game.

Also the mg at an early phase can stop a spammer in his tracks.The armor piercing rounds at vet. one on the mg can deal with any early vehicle (M20, AA half track Stuart, T-70).Also if you are desperate to kill a big amount of inf. with your mg use armor piercing rounds vs inf.

Just wanted to add that Osttruppen with a 251 HT can work nicely agaisnt Snipers, as Osttruppen are very cheap anc quick to reinforce, and being 6-man squads can take a hit from double snipers without having to retreat. Being quite cheap, they also help with getting mapcontrol, which a soviet player with snipers should be low on.

Glad I stumbled upon this thread. I have been having some trouble playing osther as of late since the patch. Thanks for this tips.

The Ostheer Sniper, I feel, is very effective against Soviet t2, because then they have no counter snipe. I don't feel that it's a very good build against T1; instead, a fast scout car with 222 upgrade is generally a good way to deal with T1 because the scout car, snipers, and penals cannot really damage the scout car.

I personally agree that the MG42 needs more suppression. In COH1, if you got caught, you got suppressed. In COH2 it's almost useless.

Minds are useful, you just need to use them differently from COH1 mines. Instead, put S-mines in retreat paths or hard to see areas (ex: small crevices between buildings, or a retreat path of a flank). Teller mines are very effective later on in common choke points or base entrances or something.

Against soviets, Ostheer is actually pretty balanced. Against USF, it's pretty rough early and mid game.

Ostheer really do need some love. The mg42 doesn't perform its one role, grenadiers can't match the rifle/conscript spam and overall the first 2/3 of the match is a real challenge. If you make it to late game, the allies will have hordes of T-34's and AT guns. Your one panther or tiger stands no chance.

Oh and conveniently they just nerfed the panther & tiger. lol

I have been playing ostheer for about a month now trying to perfect it. Its by far the biggest uphill battle for any faction I have played in the game. I still feel so week and so fragile compared to other factions. Unless you have a tiger or an elefant on the field you feel like tin foil. To me the faction would be more balanced if they removed 1 tier and compacted the other units into just 2. We already have to upgrade and then build the building and then finally build units from it. We cant even skip tiers like other factions. We can choose not to build the building but we still have to pay to upgrade.
To me Ostheer is more broken and frustrating then ever before. Sorry for the rant.

Perhaps the most frustrating thing with Ostheer is the MG bug in a building, where it will not set up or not fully set up.

After the five minute mark, if molotovs or grenades are researched, the effect can be disastrously game-ending.

I agree with tech costs. We spend 320 manpower or more to just get a fucking building. LT tech is only 300 mp and 50 fuel - T2 tech is 320 mp and (65?) fuel

I agree with tech costs. We spend 320 manpower or more to just get a fucking building. LT tech is only 300 mp and 50 fuel - T2 tech is 320 mp and (65?) fuel

Lieut tech is 200MP 50FU, which gives a 'free' 300MP squad-
BP1+T2 is 200MP 45FU + 120MP 15FU, total of 320MP 60F.

Net effect is, USF player is 420MP up over the wehrmacht player 5 minutes in, without having to do anything except tech BP1 unlocks riflenades and LMGs, but these don't kick in and affect the manpower game significantly until much later.

Other thing to note, wehrmacht T1 > USF HQ and wehrmacht T2 > Lieut tech as the game goes on, USF has more expensive healing MP-wise, more expensive (but better) light vehicles, etc etc, so the calculation isn't really exact. But at the 5-7 minute mark, wehr loses a ton of combat-effective manpower on the field compared to USF, which is why the M20 causes so much of a problem in my opinion.

Lieut tech is 200MP 50FU, which gives a 'free' 300MP squad-
BP1+T2 is 200MP 45FU + 120MP 15FU, total of 320MP 60F.

Net effect is, USF player is 420MP up over the wehrmacht player 5 minutes in, without having to do anything except tech BP1 unlocks riflenades and LMGs, but these don't kick in and affect the manpower game significantly until much later.

Other thing to note, wehrmacht T1 > USF HQ and wehrmacht T2 > Lieut tech as the game goes on, USF has more expensive healing MP-wise, more expensive (but better) light vehicles, etc etc, so the calculation isn't really exact. But at the 5-7 minute mark, wehr loses a ton of combat-effective manpower on the field compared to USF, which is why the M20 causes so much of a problem in my opinion.

You can add that T2 need a pio ( a new pio, or retreat the one from the start ) + time to be built.