(Infiltration) Grenades against buildings

I think I would agree OKW has a difficult time clearing out buildings early game. This is exactly why most players chose commanders with infiltration grenades. The grenades themselves are fine, just need a cost increase as they demolish buildings rather quickly.

Sigh, just remove infiltration grenades from the title and the discussion.

Should grenades almost 1 shot buildings? It's 2013 all over again, but instead of being random, we all know what's it's going to happen.

Sigh, just remove infiltration grenades from the title and the discussion.

Should grenades almost 1 shot buildings? It's 2013 all over again, but instead of being random, we all know what's it's going to happen.

Yeah I learned to not mention okw in balance threads.
I dont mind the KILLING potential of infiltration or other grenades. I dont mind it wipes squads inside buildings. I mind it among other grenades will demolish houses way too soon in the game.

Small arm fire op, 1 shotting houses and shit (it looks funny and silly)

well, 10 munis is ridiculously low for what it does.

Just another unique feature at a reasonable cost that was given to Axis when it should have been given to Allies. Commander tanks, Sturm Offizier, Hull Down... What do Allies get? Hit the Dirt!

If you aim them right, infiltration grenade will destroy any house. Basically try to aim at the center. The spread of the thrown grenades will do the rest and damage all 4 outter walls enough for the building to collapse. That being said, DONT change it.

OKW is fucked vs garrisons anyways and you are forced to choose a specific doctrine for these grenades, already narrowing down your choices for the late game. Now dont tell me shit about the walking stuka and how OP its supposed to be. I wanna see you pull a walking stuka out of your head when a metric fuckton of maxims denied you any fuel income all game. Even if you get one out, by the time you do, the enemy will have enough firepower for it to not matter.

I know, OKW does have its fair share of problems and they do indeed have glaring balance issues, these grenades vs buildings being just one of many. Its an undeniable fact though that in the early game and early mid game youve got absolutely nothing vs buildings as OKW and as such you heavily rely on these grenades, especially vs soviet T2. OKW doesnt have a flamethrower, they dont have anything like a molotov that can deny a building to the enemy, their little howitzer is a giant waste of resources as it takes forever to destroy just one building and costs way too much for its performance and the stuka comes out at stages of the game where you have already lost if you didnt manage to push the enemy out of the buildings. Dont even mention tanks, they come out way too late. Theres no mortar for OKW or any early game vehicle that could do decent enough damage vs buildings. OKWs AT gun is utter garbage and, unlike the soviet one, will take forever vs buildings since it doesnt have that little 60muni ability to launch HE rounds.

Dont get me wrong, this ability is undeniably OP vs buildings and OKW creates a massive fuckton of problems in the game but as long as there are no other options, dont remove this or its gg from the start. Fix OKW and its massively glaring balance and design issues and you can get rid of the infiltration grenade or nerf it. Before that, it has to stay as it is cruicial.

Little fun fact: Because of this very very cheap abilities opportunity cost, Ive often found myself throwing these nades at everything that moves, thus postponing shrecks by quite alot of time, making me open and vulnerable to a tank rush. Isnt that what every allied fanboy always wanted anyways? ^^

If you aim them right, infiltration grenade will destroy any house. Basically try to aim at the center. The spread of the thrown grenades will do the rest and damage all 4 outter walls enough for the building to collapse. That being said, DONT change it.

OKW is fucked vs garrisons anyways and you are forced to choose a specific doctrine for these grenades, already narrowing down your choices for the late game...

Little fun fact: Because of this very very cheap abilities opportunity cost, Ive often found myself throwing these nades at everything that moves, thus postponing shrecks by quite alot of time, making me open and vulnerable to a tank rush. Isnt that what every allied fanboy always wanted anyways? ^^

Nerf Infiltration Grenades, buff ISG, everything gets what it deserves.

I would also take issue claiming tossing Infiltration Grenades very meaningfully decreases Schreck buying, because those things are ridiculously cheap and a good opportunity for them is the same as a good opportunity for a regular Model 24 at a third of the price. My use of the ability has never made me think "My Volks might be regularly shredding their infantry with grenades...but when they do that nine times, they'll have one less Schreck! ", it's that cheap.

Now tossing three Model 24s, that's a noticeable and fair trade-off against a Schreck with 6 less squad-wipes for enemies to dodge. Plus the cooldown of it actually does stop Volks from spamming the things every time they fight so it's hard to suck away all your munitions on Infiltration Grenades even if you wanted to.

This bullpudding grenades should cost 45 munition.

Well done Relic

This bullpudding grenades should cost 45 munition.

Well done Relic

Working as intended.

Other members have mentioned this but Molos are already much better building denial for the continuous damage after splash. Most skilled players just exit to dodge grenades and re-garrison after it denotes, basically wasting the opponents munis.

Infil grenades are good as they are, leave them alone. OKW has many other problems, like vet bonuses.

Other members have mentioned this but Molos are already much better building denial for the continuous damage after splash. Most skilled players just exit to dodge grenades and re-garrison after it denotes, basically wasting the opponents munis.

Infil grenades are good as they are, leave them alone. OKW has many other problems, like vet bonuses.

Except infiltration grenades will demolish the house. I don't mind the killing potential to models i just want houses to survive longer.
It's like people only focus on the infiltration word and disregard the rest

Except infiltration grenades will demolish the house. I don't mind the killing potential to models i just want houses to survive longer.
It's like people only focus on the infiltration word and disregard the rest

Should've not put that infiltration into the topic. Anything okw related enrages a lot of players here. You can't even discuss Ostheer units any more without somebody complaining about Obersoldaten.

But I agree, the recent building changes are rather immersion breaking imo. Especially those small wooden shacks can get destroyed even by one nade, making it simply to risky to ever enter those shacks (not like it ever rewarding since most just have 1-2 windows).

Nerf Infiltration Grenades, buff ISG, everything gets what it deserves.

I would also take issue claiming tossing Infiltration Grenades very meaningfully decreases Schreck buying, because those things are ridiculously cheap and a good opportunity for them is the same as a good opportunity for a regular Model 24 at a third of the price. My use of the ability has never made me think "My Volks might be regularly shredding their infantry with grenades...but when they do that nine times, they'll have one less Schreck! ", it's that cheap.

Now tossing three Model 24s, that's a noticeable and fair trade-off against a Schreck with 6 less squad-wipes for enemies to dodge. Plus the cooldown of it actually does stop Volks from spamming the things every time they fight so it's hard to suck away all your munitions on Infiltration Grenades even if you wanted to.

Not arguing that you are right. Because you are. Just said it would add up to the munitions costs, BECAUSE it is so cheap and makes you think less about the investment. Sure, throwing 5 of them is almost negligible but the point stands.

And yes, they balance out the other shit and give OKW a fair chance to win building fights(other than cheesing 3 obers behind green cover next to the building) and Ill be the first one to support a nerf of these op grenades. Never argued with that. Much rather the opposite, as you should see in my other posts where I clearly stated these things are op as fuck several times(which in itself suggests I want them to be changed).

Flak halftrack

L2p

comments like this sometimes convince me not to keep reading the thread anymore! lol

Thanks for the advice, I think I just Learned 2 Play