(Crazy) Ideas for USF vehicle play.

I have done some thinking around the flexibility that the abillity to decrew their vehichles give USF. Most of these are rather theoretical and situational. I am also very interested in hearing all the crazy ideas you guys have too. My intention by starting this thread is to discuss all the possibilities USF has in terms of vehicle play, regardless of how situational it might be.

Feel free to share any ideas you might have. I would suggest something like this:

Describe your idea:

What are the pros?

What are the cons?

This might lead us into the grey zone between being creative and taking advantage of exploits, so please keep comment on this too. My intention is not to come up with exploits.

Here are some of the ideas I have (Though I am not implying that I am the "inventor" of these ideas):

Ambulance sharing:

Decrew the ambulance to get the medics, either by crewing it by someone else or giving it to an ally. Use the medics either at base or at the ambulance. You can set up a forward retreatpoint at the ambulance regardless of who owns it.

Pros:
-You can use the medics in addition to the ambulance.
-Enable an ally to have forward reinforcement and healing. Soviet does not have fast non-doctrinal access to this.

Cons:
-You get most of the bonuses by keeping the ambulance as it is.
-It will cost more mp, unless you keep it unmanned most of the time, which have its own downsides.

M20 sharing:

If you have an M20 after the window where it can operate with relative safety is closed, you can still use it to plant mines. There might be someone else on the team who can do this job better/have more muni, and it can therefore be beneficial to give them the M20. If this teammate is playing USF they can always give it back later.

Pros:
-The M20 have very good AT mines and is very mobile and can therefore do a better job than soviet engineers and/or let the engineers do other jobs (repairing, planting demo charges, etc).
-You can keep it empty at the base/a sentral location, available for anyone who want to plant mines.
-It saves you muni to let others plant mines, which can be used eslewhere, like P47 strikes.
Cons:
-It require communication and effort which could be focused elsewhere.
-Another USF player with more minelaying potential could have built it in the first place.
-You have to be somewhat carefull about using the M20 in combat. You basicly get a car that can lay mines and is shareable by all USF players on the team.
-If you give it to a soviet player, you have to build a new M20 to get access to the mines.

Tank trading:

USF player can give tanks to other team members. This is good if you have reached pop cap while a team mate has plenty of room. It can also be used to snowball an ally, for example a soviet player who is going for IS2/ISU 152. USF players can swap tanks. If you have mechanized company you could actually change the armor composition of the team. However it would take some time/effort (a captain could speed this up) to do this. (Example: Give the mech player a Sherman, he "sells" it and build a Jackson for you)

Pros:
-You can strenghten allies in order to give them more xp. (kinda similar to how OST can give OKW fuel for fast KT). You can also help allies that are behind. The other player can make up for the cost by building fuel OP(s).
-You can achieve a balanced army composition which would otherwise require very good team coordination.
-In some cases you want high veterancy on Shermans and in other you want it on Jacksons. This does not need to be limited to your own tanks but can include the rest of the team.
-I guess this is in the grey area between being creative and exploiting; you can give call in tanks (E8, bulldozer, priest, M10) and recieve major tech tanks without teching.

Cons:
-If you give away tanks to team mates you weaken yourself. Is it worth snowball an ally at the cost of your own progress?
-US tanks can not repair themself if given to a soviet player.
-Changing the armor composition is time consuming and perhaps only viable if the game drags on for a long time. This can also give the opponent time to get stronger.
-A lot of the same benefits can be achieved by good team coordination.

These are some of my ideas. They are probably too complicated, but the potential is there regardless.

I would very much like to hear your thoughts around USF vehicle play. Feel free to post your own (crazy) ideas and their pros/cons.

I would also encourage a debate around what is considered creative play and what is considered exploits.

your suggestions are kinda complicated and unneccessary...but the tank trade idea got me going.

If they made USF so they could "Lend Lease" certain tanks to soviet(No jackson and no scott would be OP,ONLY stuart and M4A3 Sherm) in exchange for a instant boost in manpower or fuel that would be cool,and somewhat realistic and immersive

your suggestions are kinda complicated and unneccessary...

Yes, I definately agree on this point.

If they made USF so they could "Lend Lease" certain tanks to soviet(No jackson and no scott would be OP,ONLY stuart and M4A3 Sherm) in exchange for a instant boost in manpower or fuel that would be cool,and somewhat realistic and immersive

I guess what I tried to point out in my initial post was the fact that USF actually can do this (without the resource boost) already. You can even give call in tanks to allys. Now this might not be very beneficial in a normal situation, but if you are floating resources at pop cap it must have some potential.

Yes, I definately agree on this point.



I guess what I tried to point out in my initial post was the fact that USF actually can do this (without the resource boost) already. You can even give call in tanks to allys. Now this might not be very beneficial in a normal situation, but if you are floating resources at pop cap it must have some potential.

Didnt mean to come off as a dick when i said they were complicated btw reread it and it came across more aggressive than i meant.

and what i mean is

USF could have an option on their vehicle that says "Lease" and from there you right click on a soviet players HQ,and the vehicle "retreats" to that HQ.

From there,the soviet player will receive a notification in their HQ menu that shows that they have pending leases,and if they accept they get the vehicle crewed instantly and the popcap applied etc

In RETURN,the USF player gets half the cost of the vehicle back.

Place an M20 AT mine and then decrew the M20 while it is still standing on top of it, and wait

Place an M20 AT mine and then decrew the M20 while it is still standing on top of it, and wait

Who doesn't want a burglar proof M20?

If you have assault engineers you can do the same with demo charges. In this case its probably better to place it a bit in front of the M20 though.

Use white phosphorus from pack hotwizer for blobber and then run your sherman crush them apart

seriousry it work for me im using it to force them to retreat if they dont they will be wipe out because our rifleman wait for them nearby

I was having a lot of success with the AA Halftrack versus OKW, but whenever a Luchs or a Puma hit the field it died pretty quickly. Then I had a thought - why not build two AA HTs??

I'm playing mostly 2v2's and it seems to work quite nicely versus OKW. OKW can't get proper armour until the late game, so with two of these kept together fighting as a single unit they can counter most things I've seen from OKW mid game.

It's particularly powerful in the current meta which is to blob volks and occasionally get a luchs or a puma out to support. Two AA HTs kill pumas without any difficulty whatsoever, and will even shred a luchs. Infantry can't do anything to stop them.

Currently I skip spending any fuel on anything other than LT and go straight for AA HT, play that conservatively until the second one comes out, then use them to dominate the field. Just have to watch out for a Raketen when being aggressive. Keep them alive until the late game and pair them with Jacksons and you've got a potent force.

Often your opponent will send out a Puma straight at them - just sit them still and laugh as the puma is shredded, then carry on.

It requires a fair bit of micro and they're fairly fragile along with a hefty fuel and manpower cost. It may not be a super crazy idea but I've tried it for a couple of games and won both of them. Any thoughts?

EDIT Here's a replay of the first match I tried it out in. Good example of how fast a scout car and a Luchs goes down to them (with a bit of an assist from a demo charge). Also they throw away a PIV or two trying to take them out.

•  
  

  0

  VS

  RANDY JIM BOKWBMister PoPoB

  ?KZ@;;$????????? Merrwine

  Double AA

  by: US3K map: Moscow Outskirts

  1

  -

And here's another one. Don't get so much use from them but OKW tries to counter with a Puma that gets ripped to shreds.

•  
  

  0

  VS

  RANDY JIM DALT11

  Fritz Lang DarthHater

  Double AA 2

  by: US3K map: Moscow Outskirts Winter

  1

  -

This is mid level play (Ranked 300-400)

I was having a lot of success with the AA Halftrack versus OKW, but whenever a Luchs or a Puma hit the field it died pretty quickly. Then I had a thought - why not build two AA HTs??

I'm playing mostly 2v2's and it seems to work quite nicely versus OKW. OKW can't get proper armour until the late game, so with two of these kept together fighting as a single unit they can counter most things I've seen from OKW mid game.

It's particularly powerful in the current meta which is to blob volks and occasionally get a luchs or a puma out to support. Two AA HTs kill pumas without any difficulty whatsoever, and will even shred a luchs. Infantry can't do anything to stop them.

Currently I skip spending any fuel on anything other than LT and go straight for AA HT, play that conservatively until the second one comes out, then use them to dominate the field. Just have to watch out for a Raketen when being aggressive. Keep them alive until the late game and pair them with Jacksons and you've got a potent force.

Often your opponent will send out a Puma straight at them - just sit them still and laugh as the puma is shredded, then carry on.

It requires a fair bit of micro and they're fairly fragile along with a hefty fuel and manpower cost. It may not be a super crazy idea but I've tried it for a couple of games and won both of them. Any thoughts?

EDIT Here's a replay of the first match I tried it out in. Good example of how fast a scout car and a Luchs goes down to them (with a bit of an assist from a demo charge). Also they throw away a PIV or two trying to take them out.

•  
  

  0

  VS

  RANDY JIM BOKWBMister PoPoB

  ?KZ@;;$????????? Merrwine

  Double AA

  by: US3K map: Moscow Outskirts

  1

  -

And here's another one. Don't get so much use from them but OKW tries to counter with a Puma that gets ripped to shreds.

•  
  

  0

  VS

  RANDY JIM DALT11

  Fritz Lang DarthHater

  Double AA 2

  by: US3K map: Moscow Outskirts Winter

  1

  -

This is mid level play (Ranked 300-400)

Interesting. Might try this against Ost with a quick Captain into Easy 8's.

Haven't really tried it against ost as a double ost team is pretty rare in 2v2s ATM. I think it exploits the OKW's lack of medium armour and reliance on volks/obers best - ost have a few more options to deal with it and an m20 is always pretty good vs grens. I don't have much time to play at the moment but I'll play a couple more tonight and see how it goes. Also excuse the loss of Jacksons in the first replay, I was distracted having fun with my flak battle group.

In keeping with the wacky theme of the OP in an AT 2v2 you could both make one then donate one to the other giving one player control of both even earlier

I was having a lot of success with the AA Halftrack versus OKW, but whenever a Luchs or a Puma hit the field it died pretty quickly. Then I had a thought - why not build two AA HTs??

I'm playing mostly 2v2's and it seems to work quite nicely versus OKW. OKW can't get proper armour until the late game, so with two of these kept together fighting as a single unit they can counter most things I've seen from OKW mid game.

It's particularly powerful in the current meta which is to blob volks and occasionally get a luchs or a puma out to support. Two AA HTs kill pumas without any difficulty whatsoever, and will even shred a luchs. Infantry can't do anything to stop them.

Currently I skip spending any fuel on anything other than LT and go straight for AA HT, play that conservatively until the second one comes out, then use them to dominate the field. Just have to watch out for a Raketen when being aggressive. Keep them alive until the late game and pair them with Jacksons and you've got a potent force.

Often your opponent will send out a Puma straight at them - just sit them still and laugh as the puma is shredded, then carry on.

It requires a fair bit of micro and they're fairly fragile along with a hefty fuel and manpower cost. It may not be a super crazy idea but I've tried it for a couple of games and won both of them. Any thoughts?

EDIT Here's a replay of the first match I tried it out in. Good example of how fast a scout car and a Luchs goes down to them (with a bit of an assist from a demo charge). Also they throw away a PIV or two trying to take them out.


thread icon bolt_grey_20x20
Honor icon 0
VS
RANDY JIM flag BOKWBMister PoPoB flag
?KZ@;;$????????? flag Merrwine flag
Download icon 3
Double AA
by: US3K map: Moscow Outskirts
1
0



And here's another one. Don't get so much use from them but OKW tries to counter with a Puma that gets ripped to shreds.


thread icon bolt_grey_20x20
Honor icon 0
VS
RANDY JIM flag DALT11 flag
Fritz Lang flag DarthHater flag
Download icon 1
Double AA 2
by: US3K map: Moscow Outskirts Winter
1
0



This is mid level play (Ranked 300-400)

I have watched your games and that Puma got indeed shredded. You had really good map control, which is probably nessesary if you want to go for two halftracks. Medium armour is probably a better option once you have unnlocked it. HE round vs suppressed enemies are really good, which makes Sherman + AA HT a good combo.

The AA halftrack deals decent damage against an OKW HQ, so if you get two of them, you could try to destroy any forward HQ, depending on how aggressive it is placed.

I believe 3 schreck hits will take out an AA halftrack, so it is safest to use them to support the infrantry/Sherman from max range. If you keep it at max range it is good vs both OKW and OST.

One thing you can do if you manage to keep them alive untill you get tanks is to swap the crews. Having vet 1 on a Jackson (or 2) can be a big difference once a Tiger hits the field. And it is very hard to get vet on a Jackson if the Tiger (or KT) is the first enemy tank on the field.

One combo that might be interesting to try out if the opponent blob a lot is AA halftrack + M8 Greyhound. This way the Greyhound can use canister shot on suppressed enemies, which should be a lot safer. However spending this much fuel on light vehicles is probably only viable if you have good map/fuelcontrol.

EDIT: I guess I messed up quoting the replays by the way...

You had really good map control, which is probably nessesary if you want to go for two halftracks.

That's the thing I need to play a bit more to figure out - did the map control come from the 2 half tracks, or did the half tracks come from the map control and if I'd played more conventionally I'd have fared better.

At the moment I'm enthusiastic about this as a strategy, but I need to play a few more games with it.

That's the thing I need to play a bit more to figure out - did the map control come from the 2 half tracks, or did the half tracks come from the map control and if I'd played more conventionally I'd have fared better.

Atleast in the first game you pushed the left side quite hard and held either the fuel or the cuttoff. I can't quite remember how much fuel they got in the second game before you got your halftracks.

If you get two halftracks you have to and should be able to maintain a good control over the fuel, espessially if you already controlled this initially. This is probably quite map dependant and should work better on maps where you can contest the fuel/a cuttoff more easily.

Edit: I forgot to add that you can learn a lot by watching the replay of the game and paying extra attention to your fuel income vs enemy income throughout the game. And the more replays you have the better.