Build orders/tactics in 1v1

Hi coh2.org members, I just wanted to take this time to write a bit about my USF strategies in competitive 1v1. Feel free to disagree and/or add constructive criticism below, or the typical "L2P noob" comments as well.

Let's start with the build order:

I have two starting build orders, one of which I (think I borrowed from an Imperial Dane cast) think can be useful.
1) RE, Rifle, Fuel Cache, Rifle, LT, M20.
-This build order allows you to start producing your M20 before the four minute mark, as well as get extra fuel income to speed teching; best of all, the fuel rate in the early game is worth more than the fuel rate in late game (kind of like money in a bank).
-This build order sacrifices some early game capping power (no 3rd rifle squad), but, depending on your opponent, could save you manpower (less mp drain due to 1 less squad, reflected in a higher mp income and no reinforcements).
2) RE, Rifle, Rifle, Rifle, LT, M20.
-Solid build order; provides good capping power early game. Potential for lots of anti-infantry power (BARs, m1919s).

Note:
-I always build RE first because of their low mp cost and quick deployment time; it allows more territory to be captured quicker.
-After getting my M20, I devote much of my munitions to M20 mines. Roads, crossroads, bridges; any well-traveled place is good for M20 mines. They can literally be game changing.


In the mid game, I change up my strats based on which faction I am fighting against, although doctrine choices generally remain the same.

OKW:
Ambulance, Captain, Grenades (AT gun)

-What this allows you to do is counter both the Med truck and the Mechanized truck. However, the Mechanized truck is the biggest danger, due to the high amount of infantry and lack of AT after ten minutes.
-With the OKW's lower fuel income plus your map dominance early game (or at least take a healthier portion of it), your captain comes out around the same time as the puma, hopefully later. The puma only has the ambulance and M20 to kill (but it can still tear up infantry), so three zooks (from M20 crew, Capt.) is usually enough to take it out, or at least chase it away (which isn't great, because it gains vet).
-Flak HT requires a 57mm, or some awesome combination of smoke, riflemen AT nades, and zooks to kill.
-Luchs is essentially in the same boat, although this will not appear with a mechanized HQ truck (unless if the OKW player really fucked up).
Note: If your opponent decided to go with the med truck, the captain tech is not needed; back-teching late game may be necessary for AT guns.

Wehracht:
Same mid game play when fighting OKW's T2 med truck; skip right to Major, but purchase grenades and an ambulance. (Unless you're fighting mechanized assault and facing Stug III Es; then get captain. an M20 will kill a Stug E).

Importance of the mid game:

This can make or break the 1v1 as a whole, or just continue on with the stalemate. Munitions are extremely important to this playstyle; it requires M20 mines and equip-able weapons. Therefore, it is imperative that both munition points are controlled, and/or a munitions cache is constructed. As always, fuel is important, but what's more important is killing enemy squads and causing a manpower shortage.

There principal way of causing this mp shortage is to get BARs or M1919s on your riflemen, and keeping them at mid-long range.

Against Wehrmacht, your biggest threats are Mechanized Assault, Elite Troops, and Spearhead doctrines. They can turn the mid game around rather easily if you are careless.

Against OKW, any doctrine with elite infantry can be dangerous; Panzer Fusiliers have increased sight and G43s are pretty swell; Fallschirmjagers can appear out of any fucking house, and Jaeger Infantry can do about the same thing. Beware.

As for doctrine choices, I prefer to stick with Infantry Doctrine or Airborne.

Airborne can be especially helpful if you want to either skip captain (AT gun drop) or if you went for the fast M20 (acts as your third rifle squad). Also, P47s destroy. The .50 cal is rather useless; it's available in the LT tier for the same cost, and with a crew. Pathfinders are pretty good, especially with double BARs and their extra sight. They can also help replace that rifle squad early game, although they are not nearly as powerful as a rifle or airborne squad.

Infantry doctrine can be great, especially if you've got a lot of munitions.
M1919s cost 70 mu each (ten more than BARs), but are damn worth the dps. The mortar half track can always be called in if you've got a high fuel income and a lot of volksgrenadiers camping at a medic truck. Sandbags are always useful, and the adorable little mines, when placed in groups, can wreck vehicles; use them in conjunction with M20 mines for a jolly good time. Time on Target costs a lot, but can help seal the deal on a wounded HQ truck, or an immobilized heavy vehicle. The Priest is really icing on the cake you only buy if you're going to win or if you just killed your opponent's first panther thirty seconds after it hit the field (in OKW's case).

Another viable option is recon support. The M8 Greyhound is the shining star in the doctrine; if you get one or two of them after your M20 without the intention of getting captain, you're pretty well set. If you're lucky, you will wipe squads and your opponent will rage quit. If you're unlucky, the puma kills your M8s and M20 and you struggle on.

The late game:
The late game is such a broad, random area. Jacksons are good, keeping your vetted infantry alive is good, using your double or triple vet M20 to scout is good. Be smart. Try not to lose squads.


Thanks for reading guys.

1. Going for fuel cache as your third choice is not good option I guess.
It leaves open area for your enemy which means you (probably) won't get fuel point in first 4mins or you will but you will lose it. So in the end you have less fuel income for the first 3mins than if you go for 3x Rifles, get fuel and then build cache.

2. You don't go for Captain agaisnt OKW. Lt, M20, huge map control, Mjr, 10min Sherman, 13min second Sherman, the end.
Going for Captian means you won't put the pressure. It's defensive attitude. You are defend yourself from Puma or 251/17 intead of pushing your enemy with Sherman. Single zook from M20 is enough to push back Puma.
Get 57mm from Airborne.

3. Playing agaisnt Ostheer is more flexible. You can get M20 and Sherman or Captain and Stuart. Both ways are fine. M10 will deny Stug E.

when do you go captain then? never?

you can put similar pressure on Okw with four rifles And nades, similar to con spam.

i fail to see how going captain against a mech truck(which is countrr to LT) is a bad thing

i fail to see how going captain is bad against a luchs supported by shreks and the increasingly popular Pak43.

idk,, i used to do the m20 sherman rush cheese till people started learning how to plant mines are use raks and shreks.... and pak 43s which come out shortly after your shermans makes that same start so easy to counter.

*** also this airborne strat has no arty whatsoever besides major and scott, perfect for pak43 and good mg34 placement

its not like you cant still rush a sherman by going captain, and still having arty and good infantry.

sherman may be 30seconds to 2 mins late if you use supervise.

Gotta agree with Cookiez, the Captain definitely has a place.

Australian Magic, on certain maps, going for an early fuel cache is certainly feasible. maps like Minsk, Semoskiy, and to a certain degree on Kholodny Ferma summer, it's rather easy. Typically I will go for Captain if I am struggling or beginning to lose the mid game and/or if OKW is going mech. truck.

I wouldn't waste my time with a captain stuart against Wehrmacht. I'd rather get an M8 and Sherman or two Shermans. It takes them forever to get decent armor and spending 150 fuel on captain + stuart seems silly.

Perhaps Airborne is the best doctrine to use because of infantry and airdropped team weapons?

I'd say airborne is great. You can skip capt and still get at guns. I generally don't get capt vs wehrmacht. I just steal their pak.

I haven't seen a stuart since I've played war thunder. Wtf is point of stuart? Maybe if it had 400 hp like luchs.

Do you think you strat could work well for rifle? Throw in bars and a flamer or two and generally your second tank is e8. Then again it's kinda over by that point if you've done well. But I think the flamethrower can be great on cqc maps.

....

You can get Sherman at same time when Luchs so what's the point of going for Cpt when you can have Sherman?

Best tactic against OKW is quick Sherman spam. You won't do that if you will go for Cpt.

...

Stuart is doing really well vs Ostheer.

You can get Sherman at same time when Luchs so what's the point of going for Cpt when you can have Sherman?

Best tactic against OKW is quick Sherman spam. You won't do that if you will go for Cpt.




Stuart is doing really well vs Ostheer.

Its 30 fuel more than LT. Only 10 more with M20. thats a minute and a half at worst.
The sherman arrival wont change.

You also wont get raped by a well played Flak HT/luchs before that.(Which happens with good ass players)

Sherman spam meet pak43 and shrek blob.

no pro over here - but an unlucky hit with püppchen or the mighty volx-shreck-blob make a quick end to the sherman. I often see my mates in 2v2/3v3 being forced to retreat their sherman (on HE rounds) just by 2 volx+shreck squads.

Does not mean that its instand dead, but you have to be very careful and this limits it's effectiveness on the offensive.

Its 30 fuel more than LT. Only 10 more with M20. thats a minute and a half at worst.
The sherman arrival wont change.

You also wont get raped by a well played Flak HT/luchs before that.(Which happens with good ass players)

Sherman spam meet pak43 and shrek blob.

But that minute matters.
One minute here, one here and you have Sherman 2min before Panther.
Goig for Cpt won't provide you huge map control in the first 8min.
With Lt and M20 you can get both fuels and both muni points.
You can even kill forward Med HQ with zook.


Just had amazing game. Faymonville, Shermans vs raketen, T4, schreck blob and Pak43.
It was really amazing. Through entire game I made 1 Jackson, 4 Howitzers and 5 Sherman (or maybe 6).
Do you want to see result?

You may also ask Quentin or Cruzz maybe best tactic agasint OKW ->Sherman rush.

But that minute matters.
One minute here, one here and you have Sherman 2min before Panther.
Goig for Cpt won't provide you huge map control in the first 8min.
With Lt and M20 you can get both fuels and both muni points.
You can even kill forward Med HQ with zook.


Just had amazing game. Faymonville, Shermans vs raketen, T4, schreck blob and Pak43.
It was really amazing. Through entire game I made 1 Jackson, 4 Howitzers and 5 Sherman (or maybe 6).
Do you want to see result?

You may also ask Quentin or Cruzz maybe best tactic agasint OKW ->Sherman rush.

80+90+110=280
70+90+110=270

not including nades or ambulance..which both IMO are essential.
The sherman will come at around the same time,especially with supervise.

With LT youre kinda crutching on the M20 for map control,and like i said what if the guy knows how to resist an M20. What if you lose it before you plant enough mines. you're done for. No chance. 8 min GG when luchs, obers come.
you cant even destroy the flak HQ with LT.

With captain,if you fail to apply pressure with your rifles(which isnt mission impossible)you can AT LEAST drag the game on a bit longer to allow yourself another chance at winning.
you're not putting all your eggs into light vehicles.


Im not saying you CANT go fast M20 to sherman spam..it does work and it IS a popular strat among players,if you like that by all means go ahead.


but why bastardize the Capt tier?
just promotes stale gameplay of M20 to sherman..which isnt always the best choice is all im saying

It's only 10 fuel BUT M20 provides you very good push and map control which means both fuels, which means Sherman will hit field around 10min, not 13-14min when you have one fuel and this will delay Luchs from 9min to 11 or even force your opponent to resign from it.

In fact Cpt tier is good only because of....... Cpt... Stuart useless vs OKW, 57mm can be obtained from Airborne and Pack Howie... It's good but..

alll im saying is youre putting all youre chances of winning on an M20 build thats simple to counter and easy to adapt to.

Against OST sure this is fine but A good OKW will eat you alive unless you play perfect, which isnt.... fun... or enjoyable at all IMO.

why would you want to ONLY play that way, Its like soviet t1 vs soviet t2. cheese your opponent with m3s and flamer before he gets heavier stuff(or fail and get owned in 15 mins) or push his shit in over 30 minz with good combined arms support weapon play with shocks, or in USF case, upgraded rifles.

both are viable. i feel the latter option is more interesting, and less stressful to actually execute.