Remove Shreck from Volks

Thats not a minor difference the m10 has a penetration of 140 at long range the puma 80. the m10 can penetrate nearly all medium armour with a usually success rate of 75% against p4's. the puma has only 50 % chance and dont even bother against e8 or 85's . the m10 can conformable snipe enemy medium tanks from range so it doesnt need smoke its simply lot easier to use without it. even then it gains flanking speed which is a smoke of its own . aimed shot is useful but so is ap rounds.

And 7 cp is moment when tanks start to appear. puma has no use early game. safe to hunt that pesky m20 which shreks will deal with anyway. all in all the m10 is the better medium TD by a long shot. denying that is stupid. also lol saying the flak track is good when the usf track has nearly triple the damage and mobility.

The Flak HT is good at what it does. Killing inf.

The AAHT has another role, killing light Vehicle and suppressing inf.

And again, the Puma is not fighting P4 or Panther, isn't it?

The puma is overpowered for its cost, deal with it.

Thats not a minor difference the m10 has a penetration of 140 at long range the puma 80. the m10 can penetrate nearly all medium armour with a usually success rate of 75% against p4's. the puma has only 50 % chance and dont even bother against e8 or 85's . the m10 can conformable snipe enemy medium tanks from range so it doesnt need smoke its simply lot easier to use without it. even then it gains flanking speed which is a smoke of its own . aimed shot is useful but so is ap rounds.

And 7 cp is moment when tanks start to appear. puma has no use early game. safe to hunt that pesky m20 which shreks will deal with anyway. all in all the m10 is the better medium TD by a long shot. denying that is stupid. also lol saying the flak track is good when the usf track has nearly triple the damage and mobility.

1. The Puma has exactly the same range and doesn't need spotters.

2. Flanking speed is not comparable to smoke. More speed is nice but enenmy units can still hit your M10.

3. The FlaK HT is good. It instantly suppresses and deals huge damage to infantry. The AA HT only deals decent damage with its cannon that can only be used when it's stationary.

The FlaK HT has free smoke and doesn't have to show its rear armor. It's the better one IMO.

The M10 might be better than the Puma in terms of AT power but it is doctrinal and has less survivability. The doctrine itself is also underwhelming IMO.

The Puma is not the only AT vehicle that is available pretty early. If you don't like the Puma you can still go for the JPIV.

Removing shrecks from Volks is possible without changing the Puma.

The Raketenwerfer just needs buffs and Volks need more AI power and Pzfausts.

Said so many times, it is NOT Volks being too good but screcks being too accurate at long range.

Screcks sniping armour at long range is what they are wrong, that's just encourage bad players blobbing them around the map killing every armour. In fact, Volks is a very shitty infantry. Their Kar98 is like shooting NOTHING, with shrecks they can actually vet, but without shecks they can't vet shit. Try a game if you want to proof Volks blob without shecks, they are totally SHIT. COH1 Volks are fragile but at least they know how to shoot the Rifles, in good hand they are still very good infantry unit. COH2 Volks without screcks are trash, period.

OST & SU were quite balanced. OST - long range SU - Close range. SU - biggest tank but OST Tigers is better at killing inf, speed, turret rotation.

Right know? Biggest tank? Axis. Best AT gun? Axis Best tak destroyer? Axis Best long-range inf? Axis Equal Best close-mid range inf? Axis.
Only on map arty is in favour for Allies.


Don't fortget that raketrn can retreat and can be deployed in buildings which is deadly sometimes.

USF has the best AT gun, Soviet if you count the fact it can also barrage infantry. The Jackson is bar none the best TD in the game, and none of the standard non-doctrine TD preform well against Heavy tanks.

And you keep seem to forgot that Allies have the best indirect fire in the game, what is with you and ignoring allies strengths? A single shot from a B4 on a HQ can be GG, a single 120mm mortar shell can wipe a Obers squad, A katyusha can easily wipe multiple squads. Demo charges are a for sure squad wipe on anything near them!

Narrow?
OKW have as wide selection as any other army, even wider as they have only 2 extremely situational units while other armies have plain useless ones.
Also, for a resource starved army, for some reason they can pump fastest armor in game with fastest tiering and additional bonuses cost-free for setting up said tiers while other factions need to pay for their utility additional costs. Doesn't sound too resource starved to me.

Well first off you only have 2 non-doctrine infantry unit that both excel in their chosen roll, Volks and Obers which allows OKW to coast on MP but as far as infantry unit's thats about it for them as the doctrine infantry units they can get simply don't preform nearly as well as those 2.

And if you don't think they are resource starved you aren't paying attention, a OKW player who uses grenades will critically delay their shreks and allow you to roll over them easily with any kind of armor. If you go mechanized and get any kind of armor your could to delay your Schwer pretty heavily, especially if you go stuka. If you try and convert munitions to fuel your going to get raped by medium tanks due to lack of shreks, and if you convert fuel to munitions, again your going to get your schwer out pretty late.

Then once you get your HQ's down, implying you didn't make any armor at all in t1 or t2 you need to wait to get 175 fuel (265 adjusted) to get your first Panther out. After that comes out your going to need to wait a while before getting any other kind of armor out.

Again dude is just comes down to the fact your never not going to see Infantry spam as OKW as long as they have a resource penalty and expensive tanks. Want to see more combined arms? Make it so it's somewhat feasible. OKW doesn't suffer from lack of unit choice, it suffers from the fact 1 unit choice will win or lose you the game due to reduced income.

USF has the best AT gun, Soviet if you count the fact it can also barrage infantry. The Jackson is bar none the best TD in the game, and none of the standard non-doctrine TD preform well against Heavy tanks.

And you keep seem to forgot that Allies have the best indirect fire in the game, what is with you and ignoring allies strengths? A single shot from a B4 on a HQ can be GG, a single 120mm mortar shell can wipe a Obers squad, A katyusha can easily wipe multiple squads. Demo charges are a for sure squad wipe on anything near them!

Plesea, tell me you are joking... 57mm best at gun? Barrage ability does not make best AT gun. I want my AT gun to penetrate, not kill infantry. Jackson? This glass cannon? Panther is better in everything except damage.

Plesea, tell me you are joking... 57mm best at gun? Barrage ability does not make best AT gun. I want my AT gun to penetrate, not kill infantry. Jackson? This glass cannon? Panther is better in everything except damage.

The Jackson is the best dedicated tank destroyer, with the Panther being a tank hunter, and yes the Jackson is a glass cannon but it's also the most high damage and mobile TD in the game. It easily make's short work of anything but Panthers and KT's.

Yes the 57mm is an excellent AT gun, great ROF, good range, and with it's vet 0 ability can reliably penetrate the armor on the heaviest tank in the game. The Ostheer non-doctrine AT gun can't penetrate allied heavy's nearly as reliably while having a poor rate of fire.

The ability to barrage should not be under estimated, it can easily kill blobs making it useful in more than just one situation.

The Jackson is the best dedicated tank destroyer, with the Panther being a tank hunter, and yes the Jackson is a glass cannon but it's also the most high damage and mobile TD in the game. It easily make's short work of anything but Panthers and KT's.

Yes the 57mm is an excellent AT gun, great ROF, good range, and with it's vet 0 ability can reliably penetrate the armor on the heaviest tank in the game. The Ostheer non-doctrine AT gun can't penetrate allied heavy's nearly as reliably while having a poor rate of fire.

The ability to barrage should not be under estimated, it can easily kill blobs making it useful in more than just one situation.

Define Reliability.

Plesea, tell me you are joking... 57mm best at gun? Barrage ability does not make best AT gun. I want my AT gun to penetrate, not kill infantry. Jackson? This glass cannon? Panther is better in everything except damage.

57mm was the best one before patch, before Pak40 TWP buff.
70 range with permanent sight (#balance) is insane and it has decent reload.

If you think Jackson is bad, please really learn to use it. This is the most bullshit EVER, IMO in mixed Allies and marked target it breaks the game. This bastard makes Tiger I like toy.

Define Reliability.

It has a less chance to pen the front armor on a IS2 and a KV1 than a 57mm using tungsten shells does. And with a slower ROF means that it has less chance to actually do damage in a set time frame.

If you think Jackson is bad, please really learn to use it. This is the most bullshit EVER, IMO in mixed Allies and marked target it breaks the game. This bastard makes Tiger I like toy.

Pretty much this, once it gets vet 1 it can easily make any tank in the game cry and quit the field. While easily being able to chase due to the insane range + speed. The only real counter to a good player with Jacksons is the Pak43/Elefant/Jadgtiger.

It has a less chance to pen the front armor on a IS2 and a KV1 than a 57mm using tungsten shells does. And with a slower ROF means that it has less chance to actually do damage in a set time frame.



Pretty much this, once it gets vet 1 it can easily make any tank in the game cry and quit the field. While easily being able to chase due to the insane range + speed. The only real counter to a good player with Jacksons is the Pak43/Elefant/Jadgtiger.

I think the Pak costs less than the 57mm and it has the stun shot, where the 57mm MUST use an ammo ability to be effective.

57mm was the best one before patch, before Pak40 TWP buff.
70 range with permanent sight (#balance) is insane and it has decent reload.

If you think Jackson is bad, please really learn to use it. This is the most bullshit EVER, IMO in mixed Allies and marked target it breaks the game. This bastard makes Tiger I like toy.

Yes, Jackson is bad because it's pure RNG unit.
Once I attacked 1 Panther with 3 Jacksons. 6 shots, all of them bounced.

And don't say, 57mm is good because at far range is has... 115 penetration.

HVAP is not a solution because its still has a problems to penetrate Panther.

Well used Jadgpanzer (or on urban maps where there is no place to flank) can deny Jackson.

Yes the 57mm is an excellent AT gun, great ROF, good range, and with it's vet 0 ability can reliably penetrate the armor on the heaviest tank in the game. The Ostheer non-doctrine AT gun can't penetrate allied heavy's nearly as reliably while having a poor rate of fire.

Please, tell me, how 30% more penetration (115+30% if Im right) is enough to penetrate the heaviest units?

While Pak40 has 190 at far range and I guess it has 3,9 realod time (57mm 4,3s) so stop talking bullshit.

Yes, Jackson is bad because it's pure RNG unit.
Once I attacked 1 Panther with 3 Jacksons. 6 shots, all of them bounced.

And don't say, 57mm is good because at far range is has... 115 penetration.

HVAP is not a solution because its still has a problems to penetrate Panther.

Well used Jadgpanzer (or on urban maps where there is no place to flank) can deny Jackson.

57mm penetration was like that since COH1, but they never disappointed me, L2P.
It is already much better, AP round much cheaper, more accurate and having permanent spotter. #lowskillfriendlyRelic

57mm penetration was like that since COH1, but they never disappointed me, L2P.
It is already much better, AP round much cheaper, more accurate and having permanent spotter. #lowskillfriendlyRelic

Ok, just explain me, how 27% chances to penetrate KT has anything to do with skills?

Yes, Jackson is bad because it's pure RNG unit.
Once I attacked 1 Panther with 3 Jacksons. 6 shots, all of them bounced.

And don't say, 57mm is good because at far range is has... 115 penetration.

HVAP is not a solution because its still has a problems to penetrate Panther.

Well used Jadgpanzer (or on urban maps where there is no place to flank) can deny Jackson.




Please, tell me, how 30% more penetration (115+30% if Im right) is enough to penetrate the heaviest units?

While Pak40 has 190 at far range and I guess it has 3,9 realod time (57mm 4,3s) so stop talking bullshit.

I'm not talking pure reload time, I'm also talking cone of fire and accuracy. Not to mention 190 pen is cold comfort against KV1's and IS2's which both have far above 190 frontal armor. Combine that with a fragile crew and excellent allied indirect fire is a reciepe for giving your enemy free AT guns.

And yeah Jackson has some RNG involved but dude the pure damage potential of it is insane, you can easily kill a Tiger quickly using Jacksons, not mention anything lighter than that. Ever wonder why people don't get anything lighter than Panthers anymore? It's because of the Jackson which eats anything below a heavy tank alive.

Regardless this thread is about OKW, and for OKW the Jackson isn't as much of a problem because OKW mediums don't exist.

Yeah run your panther up to his b4 over a few mines and past all his AT guns and KV1's I'm sure that will end well for you. And if you run right into the cone of fire of the B4 it's bye bye Panther.

Stop trying to act like no counters in the game exist to Axis units when they are plentiful, A snared KT is so bloody slow that it's immensely easy to flank and or hit with a B4 shell or some other sort of artillery.

This forum reminds me the old days, those COH1 nubs 24/7 whining how "underpowered" the US was.

Ok, so shine me, how to use Jackson on maps like Trois-Point vs Jadgpanzer.

So I need to pick doctrine (B4) to counter non doctinal unit (KT)? Great design.