Paratrooper reinforcement cost

So u are being beaten by 3 rifles until he gets paras?

Dont change up the story now.

He either lost 2 rifles. and with his magical map float got 2 fucking paras which is 760mp

Or he was beating you with 3 rifles and held out for paras

In both cases. You got outplayed in some way

Paras are cheap in terms of CP.Getting rifles,lieutenant,then aa truck.And getting AT gun from airborne,its common.And i'm not talking abt any particular game at all,lategame para -rifle blobs are common sight.No matter how much you live in denial ost has no counter as infantry-none.

And ost has no artillery as it is which is just fucking perfect.And a dysfunctional shitty machine gun.christmas for usf blobs.Seems like my tiger has to kill everything.And this is not only 1 vs 1 scenario,also teamgame.Games are longer,resources are easier.
In 1 vs 1 i got far bigger problems than paras,just sheer survival.90% are autowin for usf anyway,para or no para.Not that lmg paras won't be a uncounterable beast lategame 1 vs 1 either.

You guys are forgetting that the USF player invests 120Muni for that LMG upgrade (by far the most expensive upgrade for any infantry). Since USF buys LMG, he/she is going to lack air support (which is critical late game). Not to mention the devastating effect to the USF player if he loses his Para LMG squad.

Investing large sums of muni on Elite squad for capable AI ability is not OP.

Everytime I read this argument, I laugh my ass off, you make it look like you have to keep paying 120munis every X time or something.So Once you upgrade your unit, you have to keep upgrading it because if you dont, then the unit wont have that upgrade anymore? Lol. If you lose a squad, then yes, because its your fault.

But if you dont lose any upgraded unit.. you can farm muni for your precious airstrikes..

Everytime I read this argument, I laugh my ass off, you make it look like you have to keep paying 120munis every X time or something.So Once you upgrade your unit, you have to keep upgrading it because if you dont, then the unit wont have that upgrade anymore? Lol. If you lose a squad, then yes, because its your fault.

But if you dont lose any upgraded unit.. you can farm muni for your precious airstrikes..

Obers don't have to pay for anything. additionally, they are non-doctronal

Everytime I read this argument, I laugh my ass off, you make it look like you have to keep paying 120munis every X time or something.So Once you upgrade your unit, you have to keep upgrading it because if you dont, then the unit wont have that upgrade anymore? Lol. If you lose a squad, then yes, because its your fault.

But if you dont lose any upgraded unit.. you can farm muni for your precious airstrikes..

The whole point was the USF player dumps huge amount of muni in ONE infantry squad that can easily be fought off with Obers, meanwhile, obers get free LMG.

Comparing DPS,nice.Omitted just one key fact there tiger.Pzgrens are 4 men self-squadwipe specialists with 42 reinforce compared to 6 men and 28 reinforce.

In fairness, I pointed out that Paratrooper squads are more durable, where on an individual entity basis, PGrens give you more dps at mid range. Assuming both squads are vanilla.

The strength of Pgrens, is that on maps where you can expect mid-close range fights, they are a unit that works well in tandem with other Ost staple units, such as Grens/MG42/Halftrack/Pak and fulfill a clear role in that composition, with the option to get Shreks and make them a supplementary AT unit.

Paratroopers scale better at AI and become a durable LMG platform that is easier to use and arguably over-performing as in general, aside from Soviets, squads with LMG's tend to scale really well. If you have the MP and munitions, Paratroopers work on any map.

In 1's, the situation I see most often in regards to Paras, is that they come after the initial light vehicle push and supplement a USF's player to transition to Major+shermans. Some people get a 2nd squad after the 1st Sherman, others go bars for their rifles. Either way, if this rolling ball gets going, it's pretty brutal, especially on Ostheer due to the disparity in teching costs currently.

So in short, I do believe they scale excellently, like allot of LMG equipped squads. But again, i'll say, imo, it is a wider cross faction issue that has existed for a while now.

Fix OKW, adjust LMG profiles again and address Ostheer tech costs. That is allot more work then simply nerfing Paras/Obers admittedly.

Edit: P.s. Obers do pay for their LMG, it is built into their MP cost and they require tech to reach. Unusual for a unit to come with an LMG off the bat without a munitions cost mind you. You can argue the MP cost/timing/performance is wrong ofc.

The more you go on OP The more it comes off as a LTP issue. USE. THE. MG. 42. Don't just blob grens at a bunch of expensive PURE AI SQUADS. If you use HMG42 properly there's no way a blob of anything will ever work properly against it, unless they have smoke, which I doubt they will have in abundance IF THEYRE SPAMMING PARAS AND LMGS. And if for some reason they do, then they won't have many light vehicles. And if they do? Buy a Stug E

The more you go on OP The more it comes off as a LTP issue. USE. THE. MG. 42. Don't just blob grens at a bunch of expensive PURE AI SQUADS. If you use HMG42 properly there's no way a blob of anything will ever work properly against it, unless they have smoke, which I doubt they will have in abundance IF THEYRE SPAMMING PARAS AND LMGS. And if for some reason they do, then they won't have many light vehicles. And if they do? Buy a Stug E

The more you try to make it look as if hmg42 in its current state is a blob-stopper the more i laugh at you,and more my suspicion grows abt ur ost playing credentials.Blob of anything works very well against a mg42 -u would know that if u actually used it more.
And i don't have mech assault.I would say its a LTP issue as well from ur end,learn to play ost.

You can argue the MP cost/timing/performance is wrong ofc.

Im stills scratching my head why it equates to an lmg that has twice the dps of the lmg42. Silly Germans, equipping grenadiers with inferior new technology.

P.S. Halve the lmg34 dps and give paras only one LMG and lmg mania would be slightly less. Dont know what bloke thought it would be a good idea for ridiculously OP LMG's to be the late game meta for the new factions while the former factions have to sit on their asses (soviets much more in case of lack of lmg's and nondoctrinal late game infantry)

The more you try to make it look as if hmg42 in its current state is a blob-stopper the more i laugh at you,and more my suspicion grows abt ur ost playing credentials.Blob of anything works very well against a mg42 -u would know that if u actually used it more.
And i don't have mech assault.I would say its a LTP issue as well from ur end,learn to play ost.

By itself? No it isn't very good.

Instead of blobbing LMG greens across red cover towards paras, find an area of the map you want to hold, get a bunch of greens and MGs, (later paks) Have then support and spot for each other. Unless they use smoke, the MG42 is very much a counter to blobs if you spot for it. I played plenty of Ostheer during the ol 1 CP shock spam, and horrid con spam.i learned to support and love the mg42 for what it is. You simply can't chsrge an MG42 that's in proper cover when it's supportby LMG Grens, panzer grens, mines, etcIf thats happening to you I'd LOVE TO SEE VIDEO PROOF.

When people get their mg42s owned is leaving them by themselves to cover a part of the map KNOWING FULL WELL usf has light vehicles and smoke. SUPPORT. YOUR. UNITS. If you have a problem with this change factions.

And what's funny is that you complain about how useless mg42 is.. Lol try having your 50 cal one shottedby rifle grenades from a GREN BLOB from the front.

Edit: P.s. Obers do pay for their LMG, it is built into their MP cost and they require tech to reach. Unusual for a unit to come with an LMG off the bat without a munitions cost mind you. You can argue the MP cost/timing/performance is wrong ofc.

Tech costs do not matter if you can pump them out in 8th minute, which is exact the time where 2cp infantry arrives.

Also, if you believe LMG cost is included then lets do some math.
We know thanks to luftwaffe supply that 150 muni is worth 200mp.
With a simple math we are getting 120muni is worth 160mp(LMG cost compared to paratroopers as 2x 10dps = 1x20dps before some axis fanboy starts QQing about paras getting 2 LMGs).

Lets substract that 160mp from ubers 400 mp and what we have?
240.

Do ubers perform like normal grens with dual picked LMG42 or single LMG34?
Certainly NOT because obers have HUGE rec acc modifier as well as twice the DPS on basic rifles compared to grens and we haven't even got to scaling yet.

Which means:

a)Obers are overpowered for the cost(surprise surprise, who would have expected that).
b)Obers are not paying anything for the LMG, they are getting it for free where it should be 120mun upgrade(or that).

But sure, argue math.

By itself? No it isn't very good.

Instead of blobbing LMG greens across red cover towards paras, find an area of the map you want to hold, get a bunch of greens and MGs, (later paks) Have then support and spot for each other. Unless they use smoke, the MG42 is very much a counter to blobs if you spot for it. I played plenty of Ostheer during the ol 1 CP shock spam, and horrid con spam.i learned to support and love the mg42 for what it is. You simply can't chsrge an MG42 that's in proper cover when it's supportby LMG Grens, panzer grens, mines, etcIf thats happening to you I'd LOVE TO SEE VIDEO PROOF.

When people get their mg42s owned is leaving them by themselves to cover a part of the map KNOWING FULL WELL usf has light vehicles and smoke. SUPPORT. YOUR. UNITS. If you have a problem with this change factions.

And what's funny is that you complain about how useless mg42 is.. Lol try having your 50 cal one shottedby rifle grenades from a GREN BLOB from the front.

Yes,only you knwo how to use ost infantry against usf.Rest of us are all noobs running through red cover.
Now why wasn't that reflected in the win rates?Forget winrate..why did people not even bother to pick ost when they knew usf would be chosen in turn.I'm sure mg42 being as formidable as it is should surely have inspired enough confidence in pros,who atleast don't charge through red cover?
Do you know how many threads on popcornsprayer42 or balance suggestions regarding changes to it have popped up in 2 forums in the last 2 months?Go ahead ,check.I ahve probably opened only a couple..rest aren't me.I guess they are all noobs.The mighty popcornsprayer-bane of us infantry blobs.
I bow before ur superior wisdom cookie sensei.

Choose to listen or choose to lose moar
I'm TELLING YOU WHAT WORKS AGAINST ME WHEN I PLAY USF AGAINST AN OSTHEER PLAYER THAT KNOWS WHAT HES DOING. STUG E's and GOOD DEFENSIVE PLAY into tigers.

PEOPLE DIDN T AVOID OSTHEER IN TOURNEYS BECAUSE OF LMG PARAS. I PROMISE YOU THAT. THEY AVOIDED THEM BECAUSE OF TECH COSTS, BECAUSE OF OP JACKSONS against T3,(which is also a tech cost issue)

Rifle blobs are annoying, but manageable unless they use smoke(which isn't your problem here)

NOT PARA BLOBS THAT DONT EVEN BOTHER TO USE SMOKE. That's a L2p prob in most cases, and overall, is a problem ALL FACTIONS FACE, NOT JUST OSTHEER.

If a blob catches you with your pants down, boohoo. For every time a USF player does this to you, the next game he gets blabbed to death by OKW.

I'm simply not gonna agree with you unless you're sAying its a para blob supported with smoke. F there's no smoke, then spot for your DamN MGs. That's all im telling you

I think you should upload some replays. I've been playing a fair bit of Ost recently in 2v2/3v3/4v4 and while at certain times they are not as strong as the other 3 factions, they are no where near as bad as you make them out to be (feel free to check my win rates / streaks as Ost).

Your pretty much the only person who whines about how bad Ost are. Sure there are other topics but the majority are made by you and you post in every single one.

I along with many others suspect that its a massive L2P issue. Either upload some replays, quit the game or go blob volks like everyone else till Ost is re balanced. I also find it super strange you never complain about obers needing to be nerfed, despite the fact they eat cons even easier than Para's do Grens and they are a core unit and they come with a free lmg and have better grenades and have better vet etc etc etc etc.

I think you should upload some replays. I've been playing a fair bit of Ost recently in 2v2/3v3/4v4 and while at certain times they are not as strong as the other 3 factions, they are no where near as bad as you make them out to be (feel free to check my win rates / streaks as Ost).

Your pretty much the only person who whines about how bad Ost are. Sure there are other topics but the majority are made by you and you post in every single one.

I along with many others suspect that its a massive L2P issue. Either upload some replays, quit the game or go blob volks like everyone else till Ost is re balanced. I also find it super strange you never complain about obers needing to be nerfed, despite the fact they eat cons even easier than Para's do Grens and they are a core unit and they come with a free lmg and have better grenades and have better vet etc etc etc etc.

I thought the topic was 1v1. Ost cant 1v1 USF even if USF didnt choose a commander. :/

I thought the topic was 1v1. Ost cant 1v1 USF even if USF didnt choose a commander. :/

Somewhere he was crying about it in team games as well, might have been a different thread, let me find it.

Edit: Here you go.

Its never 1 para vs 2 grens,you know that.Its blob vs blob.And when blobs face off,they focus fire.Gren will melt and wipe far quicker,often before u can retreat.U can't do that to paras at all.They will simply overrun you.Also all they need to do is make you move.
In lategame its all blobs,and i'm not talking about 1 vs 1 alone here,but also teamgames.1 VS 1 rarely even lasts that long,lol.Its 90% gg in 10-15 mins.

Choose to listen or choose to lose moar
I'm TELLING YOU WHAT WORKS AGAINST ME WHEN I PLAY USF AGAINST AN OSTHEER PLAYER THAT KNOWS WHAT HES DOING. STUG E's and GOOD DEFENSIVE PLAY into tigers.

PEOPLE DIDN T AVOID OSTHEER IN TOURNEYS BECAUSE OF LMG PARAS. I PROMISE YOU THAT. THEY AVOIDED THEM BECAUSE OF TECH COSTS, BECAUSE OF OP JACKSONS against T3,(which is also a tech cost issue)

Rifle blobs are annoying, but manageable unless they use smoke(which isn't your problem here)

NOT PARA BLOBS THAT DONT EVEN BOTHER TO USE SMOKE. That's a L2p prob in most cases, and overall, is a problem ALL FACTIONS FACE, NOT JUST OSTHEER.

If a blob catches you with your pants down, boohoo. For every time a USF player does this to you, the next game he gets blabbed to death by OKW.

I'm simply not gonna agree with you unless you're sAying its a para blob supported with smoke. F there's no smoke, then spot for your DamN MGs. That's all im telling you

I don't have mech assault.In any case ur basically saying its autoloss,u need a doctrine just to play.And even with mech assault no one bothered to risk usf vs ost.
And i never said tehy didn't play becoz of lmg paras,don't put words in my mouth.The topic was on paras,but between you and me it was on mg42 ,don't try to divert the subject.

What does rifle-para blob mean to you.Smoke is even better,but even without it it can gun u down,or crawl and nade.Has happened several times,and not just to me.What ur trying to tell me is popcornsprayer42 used right can make ost problem vs us infantry go away.From experience i know ur just ranting in denial with caps to try and make a point you know has no basis in reality.Mg42 is a dysfunctional,unreliable and increasingly marginal unit due to its -
1.Poor durability
2.Poor mobility
3.Poor tarverse
4.Unreliable suppression
5.Risk of being taken and then u can't do shit coz u don't have smoke and urrah and it has 5-6 men.
6.smoke,urrah laughs at it.
7.Zero dmg.Units get suppressed,crawl forward-nade and wipe.Then laugh.
8.Loses to both its counterparts ,maxim walks into its arc ad unless its in red and ur green,ridiculously wins.

So yeah,shout all you want.Won't make this go away.Popcornsprayer42 will remain popcornsprayer 42.Trump card that pwns usf blobs - don't daydream bro.

I think you should upload some replays. I've been playing a fair bit of Ost recently in 2v2/3v3/4v4 and while at certain times they are not as strong as the other 3 factions, they are no where near as bad as you make them out to be (feel free to check my win rates / streaks as Ost).

Your pretty much the only person who whines about how bad Ost are. Sure there are other topics but the majority are made by you and you post in every single one.

I along with many others suspect that its a massive L2P issue. Either upload some replays, quit the game or go blob volks like everyone else till Ost is re balanced. I also find it super strange you never complain about obers needing to be nerfed, despite the fact they eat cons even easier than Para's do Grens and they are a core unit and they come with a free lmg and have better grenades and have better vet etc etc etc etc.

I whine because i get the feeling majority don't even bother anymore,its been so long since the faction even got any attention.
When i bring it up,none of u really can contradict me but tell me L2P.I didn't setup the tourney games.You keep saying ost is balanced,but i never feel this besieged or constantly under pressure when playing other factions at all.
Fine,i'm noob.When i ask why pzgrens are not used by pros if its l2p problem,no answer.Ever.Yet its balanced somehow.Skewed logic.
Panzerwerfer is balanced,mg42 is balanced,armored car is balanced,pzgren is balanced,sniper is balanced,stug is great.Brumbarr,lefh even better.Its all a massive L2P problem.
I'll keep ur replay thing in mind.In anycase you guys are so tired of this silly noob,you won't have to bother with me long.Just waiting for the next patch now,nothing else.After that one way or another you won't have to educate silly massive l2p noob and can happily go back to ur free wins.
on obers - I don't play okw because of blobbing.I have stated multiple times i have no problems with ober nerf or that okw is OP.I just enjoy the whining from the sideview,because hey who doesn't like the archblobber usf crying abt being outblobbed.Poetic justice right?
So go ahead nerf okw all u want,just have some self-respect and try not to bring OKW up to justify ost's units.

What is actually wrong with you. You're the one that brought up tournament pcts and I told you why people don't like ost against USF. ITS NOT PARAS. Its not the Mg42. It's TECH COSTS. The COSTS SUCK AND THEREFOR you can't have a panther to counter a Jackson, you can't have a brummbsr or Werfer for blobs..

So you're screwed against a tourney quality USF player.

A tourney quality usf player will use smoke nd rape you I'm not denying that... I'm not disputing that


If the USF PLAYER IS JUst blabbing WITHOUT SMOKE YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO BEAT THAT. ANYTHING ELSE IS JUST A L2P ISSUE. Or a MISTAKE..PERIOD. We can do a 1v1. You play USF WITH NO SMOKE. You have to blob at all times and you have to pick Airborne and SPAM paras and LMGS

ILL BE Ost and I'll show you what to do against a blobber that charges into MGS WITH NO SMOKE.

However if you use smoke you'll probably own me. Is that simplified enough for you? Do you understand what I'm saying? Or must I break it down further.

Hmmm a challenge... I've gotta see this.

I think you should upload some replays. I've been playing a fair bit of Ost recently in 2v2/3v3/4v4 and while at certain times they are not as strong as the other 3 factions, they are no where near as bad as you make them out to be (feel free to check my win rates / streaks as Ost).

Your pretty much the only person who whines about how bad Ost are. Sure there are other topics but the majority are made by you and you post in every single one.

I along with many others suspect that its a massive L2P issue. Either upload some replays, quit the game or go blob volks like everyone else till Ost is re balanced. I also find it super strange you never complain about obers needing to be nerfed, despite the fact they eat cons even easier than Para's do Grens and they are a core unit and they come with a free lmg and have better grenades and have better vet etc etc etc etc.

We all know that Ost suffers vs usf in 1v1

You pointed out the problem perfectly. the tech costs are the issue. All non doc OSt units perform well except sniper and mg42

this is a l2p issue from the OP