Conscripts Weapon Upgrade Paths
Posts: 83
With a lot of the Conscripts ability's locked away into the Guards Rifle Anti-Tank Tactics in 1v1 game it can be a very hard choice to not go for that commander.
Posts: 783 | Subs: 3
Posts: 34
Posts: 1944 | Subs: 2
-rifles (except for the expensive and usually replaced Penals) take way too long to kill MG crewman without using some other upgrade
-they lack the damage output to effectively focus fire, and thats a pretty big deal for flamers since they also have bigger squad sizes on top of that
-Scripts/Grens don't really do that much damage early game but the only reason they get vet is because of the weird vet system that rewards dying. Once they change that death=vet fuckshit, they will be even worse.
-Russians relying on expensive Shocks as the main infantry will lack infantry AT
Now it feels like the best way to have solid infantry units mid-late game is by getting something better, rather than the vcoh model of scaling your core units and supplementing them with a small amount of expensive but more specialized squads. Elite units seem to run the show unless the hit the dirt+ppsh doctrine is picked, and even with that doctrine scripts are still pretty unimpressive before you have 2 CP. Scripts/Grens both need better rifles so that focus firing actually has results, and then the MP44/PPSH/SVT need to be buffed proportionally so that they are still superior.
Posts: 934
Grens and mgs hold ground very easily against conscript flanking based play, which I find makes Russia going for some t1 sniper/elite infantry or mortar based play easier and more rewarding in the early game generally. Don't get me wrong, I find the 4 conscripts t2/t3 build with PPSH works but it lacks early game punch without a flamer. Been saying it since the start of Alpha and Beta, conscirpt/gren small arms fire needs a buff. Supported flamers run rampant because in the mid-game and counter everything except vechiles.
Posts: 2072 | Subs: 1
The PPsH is too powerful for non-doctrinal. All conscripts can upgrade cheap molotovs and AT grenades and conscripts scale well with vet. If they all had PPsH shock troops would be much less appealing. Then there is always that infantry war machine ability which would lead to conscript zerg rushes.
Conscripts' veterancy:
- Vet 1: ability unlock
- Vet 2: Armor: 1.25
- Vet 3: Armor 1.8
Grenadiers' veterancy
- Vet 1: ability unlock
- Vet 2: Armor: 2.25
- Vet 3: Weapon damage: 1.78
I can't say conscripts scale very well with vet. A vet 3 grenadier squad with an LMG will just destroy a vet 3 conscript squad. Besides, molotovs are really easy to dodge right now, since you can't target a squad with them and have to target the ground instead.
The two PPSHs this doctrine gives to your conscripts aren't all that much of a buff, but I can't imagine myself playing without them. Conscripts are almost completely useless in the late game without them at the moment, so you practically always have to choose Guards Rifle Anti-Tank Tactics.
Posts: 187
Posts: 371
Alternatively they could fix the mp/pop costs for each unit , i mean penal battalion has the same pop and cost as the pgrens which is ridiculous and maxim gun has the same as the osheer mg for having more crewmen and whats the outcome ? it gets killed by gren blobs the thing it supposed to counter MVGame . Imo we d see a lot more viable t1/t2 strats if combat engies had 4 pop , cons 5 , maxim mg 4 , soviet mortar 5 , and penal battalion was costed 300 or 360 but with the flamer already upgraded and had 6 pop .
Posts: 83
Conscripts & Grenadiers do seem to need a buff to there normal weapons to make them more effective and still keep them proportional in respect to the upgrades.
The PPsH-41 doesn't seem too powerful for non commander infantry, the Ostheer get a MG42 LMG upgrade for there Grenadiers and tons of the Soviet upgrades are locked away into commanders.
The PPS-42/43 could be a good contender for an upgrade choice. This could then leave the PPsH-41 in the commander trees if they don't want to move it out.
Posts: 74
I also think flames all round need a nerf, because at the moment it's by far and away the most effective killing weapon...
I would also like to see another rifle introduced into the game, perhaps an SVT-40 as an upgrade much like bars to increase the coscripts rate of fire.
Posts: 371
Posts: 1944 | Subs: 2
I also think flames all round need a nerf, because at the moment it's by far and away the most effective killing weapon...
Since the nerf they are pretty comparable to CoH flamers, the reason they dominate so hard is because Grens and Scripts can't kill them. Once (if) their rifles are buffed, it will be much better I think.
Posts: 34
I think mainly you need to remember that conscripts are by far the least expensive unit in the game per man. I do not like the idea of giving them all SMGs at all. Wanting them to play like rifles in vCoH is the wrong idea.
Yes Grens get an LMG upgrade, that they have to stand still to use. Conscripts get molotovs which makes them move. There are dynamics of the game in play that people don't fully understand yet.
Posts: 783 | Subs: 3
I would like to see more options for Conscript upgrades, but I don't really want a rifle DPS increase -- at least not in the early game -- I rather enjoy the pace of the current conscript vs gren battles.
Instead, do one of the following: make flamers get a rec. acc increase, make them move slower, or best choice of all, make them ineffective vs open or negative cover.
Posts: 371
I find molotovs extremely useful for how much they cost. Even if the squad dodges them, you will be denying them cover in which case your conscripts will usually win the fight in cover vs no cover.
I think mainly you need to remember that conscripts are by far the least expensive unit in the game per man. I do not like the idea of giving them all SMGs at all. Wanting them to play like rifles in vCoH is the wrong idea.
Yes Grens get an LMG upgrade, that they have to stand still to use. Conscripts get molotovs which makes them move. There are dynamics of the game in play that people don't fully understand yet.
1 Conscripts cost 6 pop and 240 mp and they loose to unupgraded grens early on without using molotov so in total they are not that much cheaper or numerous , late in the game both those units are at/nade,faust platforms and capping machines
2 so you are telling me that if your opponent throws a molotov at you , you either stand on the fire or you dance around the map ? , how about simply relocating elsewhere and then stand still there ? Molotovs are to give an edge when grens are unupgraded (cause when they are they ll still schred your guys ) and to dislodge machine guns and garissoned squads
Posts: 34
Its about how you play it. If your conscripts are always losing to grens, you are probably doing something wrong.
Posts: 371
A conscript will not always lose to a gren. Even vs LMGs conscripts can oorah into cover, deny the grens cover, and shoot them while they are repositioning. Meanwhile you are buying time for your numerous other conscript squads to speed boost into position and finish off squads, flank mgs, etc.
Its about how you play it. If your conscripts are always losing to grens, you are probably doing something wrong.
yeah your example , includes that there is only one place for your opponent to take cover or that there is one at all , your opponent being dumb enough to not understand that your running in order to throw a molotov and not circle around your cover from a considerable range while he doesnt fire at your cons with his mg , and then when your numerous cons arive he has only 2 squads ,even though cons grens and mgs cost 240 and you ve already spent both time and resources upgrading for molotovs and perhaps at nades cause of flamer halftrack , and then he does not know how to position his mg at all , does not fire at different squads not taking advantage of his superfast suppression and does not know what focus firing is and has never used a riflenade which is actually sort of good for taking squadmembers to half health enabling your units to dispatch them quickly . Great opponent MVGame ,
Oh and speed boost , i assume you r talking about ouraah , costs muinitions ,if your not carefull in the early game you might not have enough for other abilities or upgrades
FYI i have yet to loose a single 1v1 game with SRF tactics (i know that its the cheasiest doctrine but still atm its the best way to counter the late game tank-madness )
Posts: 74
Since the nerf they are pretty comparable to CoH flamers, the reason they dominate so hard is because Grens and Scripts can't kill them. Once (if) their rifles are buffed, it will be much better I think.
Yeah that may help deal with engi flamers but what about halftrack flames, a big reason they are so deadly at the moment is the damage on retreat plus the high movment speed of the vehicle making it often impossible to escape from if your caught out of position even if you retreat at full health. Damage on retreat should be cut down to around 20-30% for flames IMO
Posts: 34
Yeah that may help deal with engi flamers but what about halftrack flames, a big reason they are so deadly at the moment is the damage on retreat plus the high movment speed of the vehicle making it often impossible to escape from if your caught out of position even if you retreat at full health. Damage on retreat should be cut down to around 20-30% for flames IMO
Try laying an early mine in your retreat path. Or throw an AT nade at the HT before you retreat to damage its engine so it can't chase you. If your totally unprepared for it, it's not much different than a fast puma or m8 chasing you back to your base in vcoh.
Posts: 74
Try laying an early mine in your retreat path. Or throw an AT nade at the HT before you retreat to damage its engine so it can't chase you. If your totally unprepared for it, it's not much different than a fast puma or m8 chasing you back to your base in vcoh.
The difference between the two examples in Vcoh you mention is that tech was required for those 2 vehicles. The halftrack being in T2 can just be picked up along the way with out having to spend manpower and time in a higher tech... It's almost impossible to get a good counter up before it hits which makes the problem worse as he can be super agressive for a minute or two catching capping units with their pants around their ankles. It kind of reminds me of the PE AC which I used to hate personally.
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