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Your opponent is charging you with 8 rifles in a blob

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dpfarce
12 Jan 2015, 22:29 PM
#1
avatar of dpfarce

Posts: 308

8 x 280 Manpower

How many MG34/42s do YOU THINK, in principle, should be needed to pin the blob?



This is a serious question regarding suppression mechanics and anti-blob counters.

Remember, if it costs more of unit A to counter unit B, then you might as well just counter unit B by building more unit B.

As the game stands, currently a blob of infantry can usually focus fire an MG squad and keep sniping the gunner.


EDIT: What I hoped your puny minds intelligent self-respecting internet selves would implicitly answer, is the question, "is the current number of machine guns required to counter this blob satisfactory? Would decreasing this number make countering blobs running across the open easier?"
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braciszek
12 Jan 2015, 22:33 PM
#2
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

Sturmtiger, Kappa.

HMG's dont work in this game.
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Unshavenbackman
12 Jan 2015, 22:43 PM
#3
avatar of Unshavenbackman

Posts: 680

If you micro the Mgs, by manually targeting, I think it would take 4 of them. You should be able to suppress 2 with each. But it depends how spread out the blob is.
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somenbjorn
12 Jan 2015, 22:55 PM
#4
avatar of somenbjorn

Posts: 923

If blobbing, as in not spreading at all. And the enemy uses no smoke whatsoever, 2. If you don't have vision 3.

But I take it im being optimistic.

Disclaimer: Posts made while drunk should not count against this poster.
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Alexzandvar
12 Jan 2015, 23:06 PM
#5
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2015, 22:33 PMbraciszek
Sturmtiger, Kappa.

HMG's dont work in this game.


This, nothing like 30+ kills in one shot. Also If you use the mg34/42's vet 1 ability you can put out a insane amount of DPS.
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elchino7
12 Jan 2015, 23:16 PM
#6
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

More pylons information required.

-Does the 8 rifles are gonna use smoke? Upgrades like Bars or 1919s?
-Do they all aproach on a huge ball or are they spread out?
-Do they all aproach from the same direction? 45°,90°,180°?
-Do we have PLENTY of nice yellow cover from multiple explosions?

On the best case: you just need 2 overlapping MGs. You'll need vision so the chances of getting the first MG gunner sniped are reduce. Then you only need to reposition MGs.

Worst case:
-Without 1919s/Bars and smoke.
-120-180° aproach spread out but nearby enough.

I'll go with 3-4MGs depending on how spread out is the blob. Again, the MGs would need to reposition when the rifles get nearby. You'll need vision AND probably switch targets manually
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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UGBEAR
12 Jan 2015, 23:53 PM
#7
avatar of UGBEAR

Posts: 954

If you play Ostheer still havent reach T3 to get a PZ IV, you are basically dead, I star pick up ostheer recently again after the school ended, I found it so hard for ostheer now(1v1,2v2), I've been play Wehrmacht for years..never had huge problem before the WFA......maybe I encountered some hidden superhuman abuse just isn't that obvious.

large Team game are still German Trololorolingpwningfesat though.

all in all, MG34/MG42 needs a better suppression increase when enemy blob gets larger, the grenadier should have a recived accuracy nerf, and I can't express how the current unit clumping together gets instant wiped and the input lag is hurting me.
jump backJump back to quoted post8 Nov 2015, 18:05 PMd0ggY
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think


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CookiezNcreem
13 Jan 2015, 00:02 AM
#8
avatar of CookiezNcreem
Senior Strategist Badge
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Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15

What about 8 volks in a blob,or better yet 6 volks and 2 obers what do you do about that :snfAmi:
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pigsoup
13 Jan 2015, 00:05 AM
#9
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

2, overlapping with a spotter
Playercard of Bo-Bobby Lion

3v3: Pstreak: - 3
3v3: Pstreak: + 8
3v3: Pstreak: - 3
3v3: Pstreak: - 2


















Playercard of Bo-Bobby Lion

3v3: Pstreak: - 3
2v2: Pstreak: - 2with Ohme
2v2: Pstreak: + 1with Ohme
2v2: Pstreak: + 3with Medman






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UGBEAR
13 Jan 2015, 00:05 AM
#10
avatar of UGBEAR

Posts: 954

Play OKW will make things easier. Get a fast luchs or Obers
jump backJump back to quoted post8 Nov 2015, 18:05 PMd0ggY
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think


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warthog
13 Jan 2015, 01:14 AM
#11
avatar of warthog

Posts: 41

herp derp only activate mg42 overpowered ap rounds and kill them all. 1 vet mg42 needed
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dreamerdude
13 Jan 2015, 01:43 AM
#12
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Benefactor 392

Posts: 374

2 to pin them, comfortably blobs are really easy to deal with because they are all grouped together,

however you might want more site range for your 34s, they can't supress like 42s... well no MG can supress like a 42.

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Aladdin
13 Jan 2015, 01:45 AM
#13
avatar of Aladdin

Posts: 959

Your text..bunker/ISG into obers or stuka are best options, I never struggle vs rifleman blobs using that strat. Note that OKW flak ht is also a hard counter to such a blob specially it's not a rifle company blob. well if also depends if that blobs carry guns like bazookas/BARs, in most cases obers seem to work very good. I don't recommend relying only on mg34 as BAR seem to just kill mg34s face to face.
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RMMLz
13 Jan 2015, 01:50 AM
#14
avatar of RMMLz

Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1

HMGs ans suppression are at a terrible state right now, but they least you can to is to have a squad as spotters, I mostly use pioneers.

http://dadmand-art.ir/
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AchtAchter
13 Jan 2015, 02:32 AM
#15
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3

Don't use mgs, they get wiped one by another and end up in enemy hands. The MG34/MG42 need buffs to work in their intended role. I don't mind even a cost increase, because right now they don't work.

If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu

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Mr. Someguy
13 Jan 2015, 02:52 AM
#16
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

It should not just be about how much a unit costs, but also how you use it. You can't expect an A-move Kubelwagen to kill a ZiS 3, so why should A-move blobs kill Machine Guns?

As for the question, for 8 in a blob I'd say 3 MG 42. For 8 armed with M1919's over a slightly wider area, I'd say 6 MG 42. In that case, it's not a good idea to fight the blob head on, because it will always have the initiative, and will just avoid the MG 42 wall. As for the MG 34, it's not strong enough to be considered in this equation, against the LMG Rifleblob you'd need an MG 34 for every squad for a total of 8 MG 34's. That's just estimation but I can test it later if I feel like it.
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2016, 01:09 AMluvnest
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Death's Head
13 Jan 2015, 03:44 AM
#17
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Posts: 440

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2015, 02:52 AMMr. Someguy
It should not just be about how much a unit costs, but also how you use it. You can't expect an A-move Kubelwagen to kill a ZiS 3, so why should A-move blobs kill Machine Guns?



I agree 100% but the trick is finding that sweet spot between making HMGs too powerful and spammable vs. being ineffective in their only role: suppression. Back in July 2013 the MG42 was a godsend to Ostheer, it was reliable, pinned Cons for fun but yet still very defeatable by flanking. The problem was when they were overlapped it was just too effective for 480MP deploy-and-forget.

Nowadays we have the complete opposite situation, you have to babysit MG42 even through head-on charges for it even to survive, let alone be cost-effective.
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Nuclear Arbitor
13 Jan 2015, 03:46 AM
#18
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470

i wish MGs had attack ground. with the MG42/34 in particular, a missclick can cost you the game because the fucker decides to move.
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austerlitz
13 Jan 2015, 06:17 AM
#19
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2015, 23:53 PMUGBEAR
If you play Ostheer still havent reach T3 to get a PZ IV, you are basically dead, I star pick up ostheer recently again after the school ended, I found it so hard for ostheer now(1v1,2v2), I've been play Wehrmacht for years..never had huge problem before the WFA......maybe I encountered some hidden superhuman abuse just isn't that obvious.

large Team game are still German Trololorolingpwningfesat though.

all in all, MG34/MG42 needs a better suppression increase when enemy blob gets larger, the grenadier should have a recived accuracy nerf, and I can't express how the current unit clumping together gets instant wiped and the input lag is hurting me.


This.I have played ostheer from the beginning as my standard faction,while experimenting with others.Been playing coh from 2007.
Never was a stock faction in such a sorry state.Ost is worst right now.Absolutely shit.Just turtle and pray as the enemy slowly pens you in and then finishes u off.
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austerlitz
13 Jan 2015, 06:19 AM
#20
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

On to the topic question,depends on how many mgs are firing on the blob simultaneously. You will need 3-4 from diff angles to offset smoke firing simultaneously at once on it.If blob can target one mg at once it'll simply wipe it instantaneously then focus on next.Though most likley you will still lose because units will come straight upto ur mg-get suppressed throw grenade and wipe ur mg.

Worst blob of all is the para blob with LMG,its immune to mgs more or less with its recieved accuracy and 1919 brutal dmg.
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