Ostheer infantry commanders

I mean Ostheer has the infantry commanders, but you say they all suck. It is kinda the same with Soviets, except their infantry is much worse. Ostheer has some good infantry already. I guess we should look at these infantry commanders as upgrades and bonuses

Its not the same with soviets ,they get elite infantry that they can use in mass.Osthher HAS no elite infantry.Pzgrens are shit....and grens have poor durability and are only good when high vetted and with lnmgs in numbers.Ostheer has no infantry commanders that give us elite infantry or directly boost grens or pzgrens.
But everyone else can- Shocks and guards.Obers ,falls plus standard pzfusiliers.Paras and OP(for ost) 1919.Ost - no elite infantry,no great upgrades like 1919 either.
Either make pzgrenadiers true elite infantry or give a doctrinal option.Ost always has to be on recieving end of shocks and para blobs.

Well I've got:
COMMON
Blitzkrieg
Festung Armor
Festung Support
German Infantry
German Mechanized
UNCOMMON
Joint Operations
RARE
Elite troops
Mechanized Assault
Mobile Defense

I obviously can't tell you if I have more or less than what players had when they started but there's my complete list of OST commanders. Including got the ones from buying TOW's and I've no idea which ones I got from warspoils as opposed to which ones were already available to me.

it used to be unlocked at rank 7, no idea how it works now.

and austerlitz, your problem is that you think the options are shit and/or not obers/shocks/paras, not that there are no infantry options.

Okay. Fine. I got it. You don't like osttruppen and assgrens.

Here some grenadiers with LMG42 and pgrens with doubleschrek upgrades "to boost your infantry". Should be quite enough.

Don't thank me.

Grens with lmg42 doesn't improve their getting wiped way too quickly and even they can't stand upto shocks(for 240 mp and 60 muni u need at least 3 of those to stop the shock which is laughable resource disparity) or paras with 1919.Especially against pars with 1919 ost is helpless.

Pzgrens have been total shit for a long time now.They were given a tiny buff and then promptly renerfed for no reason.Double shrecks will do me shit against enemy infantry.

Both Elite Troops and Lightning War doctrines have at least 2 infantry focused abilities.

Both of these commanders are solid part of meta.

Again, just because you close your eyes to not see something doesn't make it disappear.

If you want to know what redundant options are, I suggest you to play soviets and check stuff like DSHK, M-42, conscript PTRS or PTRS in general and so on and so forth.

Just because you don't like the given options doesn't mean they aren't there, right in meta commanders.

First-both premium.
Second.Don't even get started with lightning war.Replcement infantry is the worst ability in the game and tac movement close.
Elite troops 25 fuel to gain vet?When rifles get vet for extra 10 mp?g43 only moderately useful and that too in close quarter maps.

Ah,when talking about soviets u conveniently forget the call-in elite infantry they get.
Shocks are brutal.And right now microed conspam beats grenadiers as well.Especially with ppsh upgrade.Maxim is better than mg42,as is soviet sniper.Soviet 120 mm mortar is a beast excelleing at 1 shotting squads.So i know exactly what i'm talking about.And before u bring up pzgrens-these poor souls have trouble beating vetted conscripts.

1919 - doctrinal
Defensive stance - doctrinal and keep in mind that access to HMG is limited.
Flamethrower - nice upgrade but Ost pio can have it flamethrower as well.
Paras with Thompsons have higher DPS than Shocks but they are more vulnerable.

OKW is elite everywhere.

And what are those doctrines that boost cons?
Ppsh upgrade? Useless.
For Russia Motherland? Good ability but cost a lot on ammo which is needed for recons and B4.
PTRS upgrade? Come on..

Ostheer - what kind of buff you want? You don't have to spend resources to get LMG, Schrecks, Fausts, Rifle Nades (Sov and USF have to).
You don't need any doctrinal upgrades because Ostheer has everything.
No need to unlock, no need to choose doctrine.
And Assault Grens don't suck. You can't charge with them. Use them to wipe squad in a building, rush to attack supressed squad or put them into this doctrinal transporter and drive behind crew weapons.


You are not looking at the other side of the coin.
Ostheer has easy access to mines. USF don't have.
Ostheer is very flexible faction. You have all units you need it first 2 tiers so you can adapt to any situation.
US Forces have very limited tiers.
And on... And on...

Doctrinal-so?Why doesn't ostheer have such a nice doctrinal option on one of its commanders.We are not allowed elite infantry,neither doctrinal upgrades.Meanwhiel paratroopers at 6 men,1919 and drops anywhere and less reinforce as grens...fuck this.

Fine-defensive stance at least can be compared to ambush camo in sorts.
Lol u comparing durability and DPS of a pio with a rifle?What is this joke?
They have 28 reinforce-less than grens...easy easy spam.And ostheer can do nothing vs para spam with lmgs or thompsons when the few vetted rifles join in.4 man gren squads can't stand up to 6 man paras.

And? i am complaining that OKW has access to elite infantry and ost gets nothing?Why?


Useless?Lolz.I will just politely ask u to check out a few conspam replays.Then u'll see how they bulldoze grens.
Right only ur abilities cost munitions?Ost are free.The pathetic tac movement compared to motherland costs munitions for a glorified short sprint.1 ambush camo consumes same as half of an lmg.And lmgs cost 60 muni.And soviets are never short of munitions as such.
Yeah PTRS sucks.

We don't have to spend resources?Ost is greatest muni starved faction.All our mines cost huge muni.All upgrades cost huge muni.Bunker costs huge muni.As does abilities.

If we have everything and grens still failing badly vs rifles and even conspam.And also no elite infantry-4 man grens getting wiped easy lategame,6 man shocks and paras always inflict hevay dmg and retreat.Pzgrenadiers extinct.

Our mines cost double the soviet mine.Soveits and OKW have cheap multipurpose mines.Our AT mine alone cost double,while only doing more dmg which is less imp than the engine dmg/destroyed it causes.Soviets meanwhile lay a mine that can one shot a squad and yet destroy engine...wtf.
The s-mine is a stupid idea.That sign post gives it away completely.Unless opposition is stupid they will simply avoid it.USA has a non=doctrinal immobilzation mine,which noob usf player often don't use though its fantastic when used with jackson in back and can be laid quickly all over the map due to car.

Coming to tiers-massive advantage of usf.Gets free units for teching while ostheer teching is crippling in cost.Ost struggling to somehow hold on and get to pak,meanwhile usf gets a free lieutenant with BAR just to add to pressure of rifles and MP wasted on teching.If u don't know what a shit teching is for ost for rifles,don't talk babble as if its an advantage.We can't even access our t4.

it used to be unlocked at rank 7, no idea how it works now.

and austerlitz, your problem is that you think the options are shit and/or not obers/shocks/paras, not that there are no infantry options.

Perhaps i should rephrase.I meant no serious options u can rely on.Which all other factions have.Just gimmicky weak shit.

idk. honestly, i don't really care a whole lot. i don't want the game to devolve into super squads and super tanks after the 20 min mark.

idk. honestly, i don't really care a whole lot. i don't want the game to devolve into super squads and super tanks after the 20 min mark.

Fine,but i hope u will hold that view uniformly across all factions.Right now only ost is denied.

Doctrinal-so?Why doesn't ostheer have such a nice doctrinal option on one of its commanders.We are not allowed elite infantry,neither doctrinal upgrades.Meanwhiel paratroopers at 6 men,1919 and drops anywhere and less reinforce as grens...fuck this.

Fine-defensive stance at least can be compared to ambush camo in sorts.
Lol u comparing durability and DPS of a pio with a rifle?What is this joke?
They have 28 reinforce-less than grens...easy easy spam.And ostheer can do nothing vs para spam with lmgs or thompsons when the few vetted rifles join in.4 man gren squads can't stand up to 6 man paras.

And? i am complaining that OKW has access to elite infantry and ost gets nothing?Why?


Useless?Lolz.I will just politely ask u to check out a few conspam replays.Then u'll see how they bulldoze grens.
Right only ur abilities cost munitions?Ost are free.The pathetic tac movement compared to motherland costs munitions for a glorified short sprint.1 ambush camo consumes same as half of an lmg.And lmgs cost 60 muni.And soviets are never short of munitions as such.
Yeah PTRS sucks.

We don't have to spend resources?Ost is greatest muni starved faction.All our mines cost huge muni.All upgrades cost huge muni.Bunker costs huge muni.As does abilities.

If we have everything and grens still failing badly vs rifles and even conspam.And also no elite infantry-4 man grens getting wiped easy lategame,6 man shocks and paras always inflict hevay dmg and retreat.Pzgrenadiers extinct.

Our mines cost double the soviet mine.Soveits and OKW have cheap multipurpose mines.Our AT mine alone cost double,while only doing more dmg which is less imp than the engine dmg/destroyed it causes.Soviets meanwhile lay a mine that can one shot a squad and yet destroy engine...wtf.
The s-mine is a stupid idea.That sign post gives it away completely.Unless opposition is stupid they will simply avoid it.USA has a non=doctrinal immobilzation mine,which noob usf player often don't use though its fantastic when used with jackson in back and can be laid quickly all over the map due to car.

Coming to tiers-massive advantage of usf.Gets free units for teching while ostheer teching is crippling in cost.Ost struggling to somehow hold on and get to pak,meanwhile usf gets a free lieutenant with BAR just to add to pressure of rifles and MP wasted on teching.If u don't know what a shit teching is for ost for rifles,don't talk babble as if its an advantage.We can't even access our t4.

By saying "we" I can assume you are Ostheer fanboy.

Doctrinal - so if you choose 1919 you won't get Paras or P47.
What doctrinal upgrades you want if you have everything all upgrades as non-doc?
Use vehicles to counter Paras - it's same mechanizm for Sov and USF to counter Obers.
I'm just saying you have non-doc upgrade.
If I choose flamethrower for Rifles I won't get many many others upgrades.

I'm more than cool to lower 1919 DPS or to limit number per squad for 1 but first nerf OKW.

Thompsons? Really? So you have problems with Paras+Thompsons but you don't have any problems with Shocks?

Yes, useless. Check Ppsh thread.

http://www.coh2.org/topic/28907/ppsh-41-needs-a-buff-or

http://www.coh2.org/topic/27468/ppsh-upgrade-for-conscripts-is-a-downgrade

Such awesome upgrade...

Who force you to use tac movement and lose ammo for something useless?
Same for camo (but this abiliy can be awesome).

Yes, Ostheer does not have to spend resources.
Are you forced to spend fuel and manpower to get LMG, Schrecks, Fausts or Rifle Nades? No.
Soviets and USF are forced to do that.

AI mines are awesome but you should not plant them at points to protect because it's easy to avoid.

Plant them on the retreat path and you will see how powerful those mines are.

Point is, you can plant AI and AT mines all the time while USF can plant only AT and only from M20. And if you get Lt you won't get AT Gun or Howitzer - no AT.

It's not a secret that Relic should swap teching cost and buildings cost so you can tech for "free" and pay only for units you want;

I can assure you that Lt, Cpt or Mjr have their own problems - pop cap, up keep.

Ostheer is the most felixble faction. If you need mortar, you get mortar. If you need HMG you get HMG.

Soviets and especially USF are not flexible.
As USF I can get HMG but I won't get At gun and on... and on...

Shocks and Paras with thompsons inflict heavy damage? Yes, they do but only when attack from behind or when you are surprised. Both will they before reach target if charging en face so it's on you to use double Grens to wipe befire they wil reach you. Sometimes even 1 squad is enough.

By saying "we" I can assume you are Ostheer fanboy.

Doctrinal - so if you choose 1919 you won't get Paras or P47.
What doctrinal upgrades you want if you have everything all upgrades as non-doc?
Use vehicles to counter Paras - it's same mechanizm for Sov and USF to counter Obers.
I'm just saying you have non-doc upgrade.
If I choose flamethrower for Rifles I won't get many many others upgrades.

I'm more than cool to lower 1919 DPS or to limit number per squad for 1 but first nerf OKW.

Thompsons? Really? So you have problems with Paras+Thompsons but you don't have any problems with Shocks?

Yes, useless. Check Ppsh thread.

http://www.coh2.org/topic/28907/ppsh-41-needs-a-buff-or

http://www.coh2.org/topic/27468/ppsh-upgrade-for-conscripts-is-a-downgrade

Such awesome upgrade...

Who force you to use tac movement and lose ammo for something useless?
Same for camo (but this abiliy can be awesome).

Yes, Ostheer does not have to spend resources.
Are you forced to spend fuel and manpower to get LMG, Schrecks, Fausts or Rifle Nades? No.
Soviets and USF are forced to do that.

AI mines are awesome but you should not plant them at points to protect because it's easy to avoid.

Plant them on the retreat path and you will see how powerful those mines are.

Point is, you can plant AI and AT mines all the time while USF can plant only AT and only from M20. And if you get Lt you won't get AT Gun or Howitzer - no AT.

It's not a secret that Relic should swap teching cost and buildings cost so you can tech for "free" and pay only for units you want;

I can assure you that Lt, Cpt or Mjr have their own problems - pop cap, up keep.

Ostheer is the most felixble faction. If you need mortar, you get mortar. If you need HMG you get HMG.

Soviets and especially USF are not flexible.
As USF I can get HMG but I won't get At gun and on... and on...

Shocks and Paras with thompsons inflict heavy damage? Yes, they do but only when attack from behind or when you are surprised. Both will they before reach target if charging en face so it's on you to use double Grens to wipe befire they wil reach you. Sometimes even 1 squad is enough.

Ostheer doesn't get fanboys lol.Its too weak for that.You want fanboys try soviet,usf or OPKW.Especially the last 2-the great blobbers.

Which changes none of the fact that despite having the best stock infantry around.americans still get elite inf like paras at 28 reinforce and 6 men.And also an epic LMG like 1919.
Meanwhile i keep hearing ost 'has great stock inf' excuse.Why are americans given such great options when their stock infantry is clearly the best by far?
Not only do we not have elite inf,our so called stock elite inf -pzgrens are 40 reinforce and 4 men.And no great inf upgrades like 1919 anywhere near.

I want some doctrinal upgrades that can increase survivability of my pzgrens or grens.Or i want elite infantry call-ins.
I would use vehicles - except if i somehow survived us light vehicle with t2(hope) i get to t3 and relieved..oh wait jackson 3 shot.Panther useless vs inf.So we are back to tiger lolz.

I don't care about OKW,do what u want.I want to be able to play Ostheer in lower game mdoes again.

When did i say i didn't have problems vs shocks genius?I said u need 3 lmg grens to make it retreat.Paras are a problem because unlike shocks which u will rarely see more than 2 at once can be spammed and come with a whole blob of rifles/para backing them.Will simply overwhelm u with brute force,ur 4 man inf will be wiped in seconds.Their 6 man won't at all.The only way for a grenadier to wipe a rifle squad(forget para) is a lucky rifle nade coz he was too careless to move.

Those threads are old.Check the new conspam..its all soviet does these days.Hordes of conscripts.MG42 can't do anything and grens can't prevent them from closing once they hit critical mass.If u try to match conscript for grenadier -they'll be laughing simply because then a shock will come out and ur done.(or they get a 120 mm which hits ur grens which try to stay static in cover to get good DPS and bleed u easy)

Who forces me?Thats exactly my point..the abilities are so redundant that i have top be 'forced' to use them?While us gets paras and 1919s despite superb stock infantry.U get shocks,conspam,120 mm.OKw gets obers and falls.As usual wehr gets the shaft.

We never have enough munitions to use these abilities u boast about,and our teching bleeds enough resources ..far more than ur one time optional global upgrades.

A mine that simply says look i'm a mine here is of little use unless opponent is retard..its a delaying tool,when ur floating muni.Nothing else.To plant them i actually have to do it behind enemy lines and make them retreat..highly highly situational.
Soviet mine is best in the game at 25 muni.Teller at double hits only vehicles while soviet can not only destroy engine but also wipe squad.

Point is our AI mine is hardly an AI mine,that muni is better invested in a rifle nade or lmg.
Ost has no answer to pack howitzer firing from range.And on no AT,bazookas are easily able to keep pz4s at bay before jackson 3 shots it.

Pop cap and upkeep will only matter if game lasts that long.Vs usf ost won't last that long.If it could like in 10% games actually last long enough to get the tiger out -congratz to him.He was a better player.

Flexibility does no good because all these 'flexible' units are mostly shit.Sniper,mg42 both shit.Grens cowardly jokers vs rifles.Mortar will hardly stop rifles advancing.If mg42 could actually halt the cosn and rifles,mortars would be of some use.Mortars right now only useful vs noob maximspam.Otherwise i mostly can't bother spending 240 mp when rifles are breathing down my grens neck .Maybe after i have established a solid defensive position with a bunker up i'll consider it.

Right now this 'flexible' faction is laughing stock and fodder for usf and struggles vs conspam too.

Shocks and Paras with thompsons inflict heavy damage? Yes, they do but only when attack from behind or when you are surprised. Both will they before reach target if charging en face so it's on you to use double Grens to wipe befire they wil reach you. Sometimes even 1 squad is enough.

Double grens will not wipe a shock ,if u played ost u would know that.And vs usf not only will u be usually outnumbered due to free units but para will be accompanied by a horde of rifles.Ur 4 man squads will wipe far more frequently than his 5 and 6 man.INfact without rifle nade u can't wipe him at all.All he has to do is make ur grens move who can't fire then and its over.

I have been hearing this bull for quite a long time now-designed with pretty solid units?Except i can't find them..what solid units?
Stock grens are fodder for rifles and are struggling vs conspam.They can only fight rifles with lmgs and vet2 or vet 3.Even then can't stand upto paras with LMG.Has to flee enmasse against shocks most of the time because they can't fire on move and shock grenade will wipe.Worst is how easy it is to lsoe vet gren squads due to 4 members.
Sniper-pretty solid unit.Dies from sneeze.Only the mortar is good.
'Good support' -Mg42...don';t make me laugh-this popcornsprayer is the worst shit.Shit mobility,bad traverse,unreliable suppression,risk being taken,urrah,smoke,no dmg and people walking right in front of it,suppresed ,then grenade ,laughs his ass off.
Powerful ATG -Its no longer something to brag abt.Pen is perhaps 10% of zis,u can make it up with bulletins.Far lower durability and no anti-blob barrage.Its ok,a good gun.
'Versatile assault troops' - Plz.Pzgrens are pathetic,40 reinforce.340mp.120 mp shrecks.1 model lost-25% DPS gone.Just stopgap AT,otherwise manpowersink nothing else.
The armored car fartcannon-i see u conveniently forgot when mentioning ur 'pretty solid units'.
Also the redundant FHT.

T3 - Pz4 can't beat anything except t-34/76.Bullied by all medium call-ins,heavies and 3 shotted by jackson(2 from out of sight) though it costs same.Stug even worse-shit penetration and 2 shotted.

Tiger- Crutch that most of the surviving players lay on.
Brummbarr-when did i see one?Never.
Panzerfer-cheap firecracker that u can't even access.
Panther-Inaccesible in lower game modes.
Overall don't know abt design,but right now this shit is not working.75% of ostheer units are far far away from being 'pretty solid units'.

I see a lot of tension my friend, chill. That was not what I meant. Read my comment again, Ostheer is my favorite faction but because of the exact balance problems you said I have not played ostheer in ages. I still say that "The Concept" of ostheer is "solid", but as I said the balance is terrible and no one denies that, specially early game versus shock units and rifle spam.

Imagine if you had a viable HMG42, Grens who deal good damage at mid range, Pzgrens who can actually kill and not get killed like flies, lower teching price which makes it easy to field 2 or 3 P4s early and finally finish their blob with a well placed Panzerwerfer barrage. Currently every single one of these units have balance issues. This can not be said as other factions, like Soviets, or even USF who are supposed to be versatile. At this moment, even a single HMG42 buff could change the game flow a lot.

I see a lot of tension my friend, chill. That was not what I meant. Read my comment again, Ostheer is my favorite faction but because of the exact balance problems you said I have not played ostheer in ages. I still say that "The Concept" of ostheer is "solid", but as I said the balance is terrible and no one denies that, specially early game versus shock units and rifle spam.

Imagine if you had a viable HMG42, Grens who deal good damage at mid range, Pzgrens who can actually kill and not get killed like flies, lower teching price which makes it easy to field 2 or 3 P4s early and finally finish their blob with a well placed Panzerwerfer barrage. Currently every single one of these units have balance issues. This can not be said as other factions, like Soviets, or even USF who are supposed to be versatile. At this moment, even a single HMG42 buff could change the game flow a lot.

I apologize,just the frustration getting out because relic never does anything for this faction except nerf.Nerf pak,nerf gren DPS,renerf pzgren.Kill it slowly more and more.

I apologize,just the frustration getting out because relic never does anything for this faction except nerf.Nerf pak,nerf gren DPS,renerf pzgren.Kill it slowly more and more.

I totally agree, all we can do is to wait for the promised "big balance patch".

Some suggestions for making Ostheer not as crap going forward into the future.

More commanders/redo old commanders so they have game starting call in infantry, for example Assault Grens. Some interesting early game infantry call ins could be: Sturmpio's, Panzergren Infrared STG 44's, and a higher caliber mortar.

Better mid game armor. Currently Ostheer suffers extremely due to T3 being made entirely useless due to Jackson's which can come out fairly early into the game. So I would either buff more units in t3, or reduce the cost significantly.

Making Ostheer indirect better. Right now Ostheers two best indirect fire units are the mortar, and mortar HT. Meaning late game when your having to deal with massive roaming blobs of infantry your only counters are mortars that have to get really lucky to kill more than 2-3 models in one hit. The LefH needs a huge buff and so does the Panzerwerfer, I would also like to see more rocket artillery added to Ostheer.

Some suggestions for making Ostheer not as crap going forward into the future.

More commanders/redo old commanders so they have game starting call in infantry, for example Assault Grens. Some interesting early game infantry call ins could be: Sturmpio's, Panzergren Infrared STG 44's, and a higher caliber mortar.

Better mid game armor. Currently Ostheer suffers extremely due to T3 being made entirely useless due to Jackson's which can come out fairly early into the game. So I would either buff more units in t3, or reduce the cost significantly.

Making Ostheer indirect better. Right now Ostheers two best indirect fire units are the mortar, and mortar HT. Meaning late game when your having to deal with massive roaming blobs of infantry your only counters are mortars that have to get really lucky to kill more than 2-3 models in one hit. The LefH needs a huge buff and so does the Panzerwerfer, I would also like to see more rocket artillery added to Ostheer.

These are mostly pipe dreams.Good to hear nonetheless,since i often get impression no one cares abt this faction.
If atleast they fixed panzergrenadiers,teching costs,mg42 and any one of the arty pieces(lefh or werfer) i would be happy.I just want an advanced infantry that can atleast stand upto to enemy elite infantry,an mg that can let grens fight at range instead of being overrun all the time and t4 not inaccesible.

I think the best (and only true, for that matter) infantry-support commander ingame, for ostheer or otherwise, is Close Air Support. you don't get the fancy camouflage, or g43s, or sprint, or even any unique elite infantry, but you get all the munitions you need to spam out all the LMGs, Shrecks, Tellers, rifle-nades, bunkers, you could ever want, and offmaps every 30 seconds for any situation you need.

Being allowed to go all-out on upgrades and abilities that you'd have to carefully 'ration' munitions for with other doctrines is more than enough to make up for any lack of direct infantry-influencing items in the doctrine, and all the strikes synergize really well with the infantry-heavy army composition. It's probably the single most fun doctrine in the game at the moment, I find, and possibly the doctrine that offers the most unique playstyle currently.

Of course, if you missed the Make Love Not War event, then hard luck. Relic should really put the doctrine, and Advanced Warfare, up for sale at some point.

After reading all these posts i came to the conclusion that im suffering from a serious psychosis...
i have severe delusion (despite all evidence of the contrary) about ost still being a great faction...

I think the best (and only true, for that matter) infantry-support commander ingame, for ostheer or otherwise, is Close Air Support. you don't get the fancy camouflage, or g43s, or sprint, or even any unique elite infantry, but you get all the munitions you need to spam out all the LMGs, Shrecks, Tellers, rifle-nades, bunkers, you could ever want, and offmaps every 30 seconds for any situation you need.

Being allowed to go all-out on upgrades and abilities that you'd have to carefully 'ration' munitions for with other doctrines is more than enough to make up for any lack of direct infantry-influencing items in the doctrine, and all the strikes synergize really well with the infantry-heavy army composition. It's probably the single most fun doctrine in the game at the moment, I find, and possibly the doctrine that offers the most unique playstyle currently.

Of course, if you missed the Make Love Not War event, then hard luck. Relic should really put the doctrine, and Advanced Warfare, up for sale at some point.

I missed it.
Can this be obtained via war spoils?

I missed it.
Can this be obtained via war spoils?

yes. got it 3x now.... warspoils, yay