Your Top 3 idea for diversifying the meta.

Sometimes, you can't force something that is broken/weak into becoming a viable unit.

Whereas whine threads about stale meta to goad relic into action have a proven track record

Whereas whine threads about stale meta to goad relic into action have a proven track record

Relic doesn't care about whatever we say

...Now you can do whatever you want, but in the end, it's about doing more for less. Does the strategy work with the least amount of effort/knowledge/micro.

Now i will take Lenny's NKVD guide as an example ( no offense Lenny i love you baby). You could probably achieve the same result by calling in heavy tanks that can demolish the eneemy rather than microing the crap out of conscripts and your nondoctrinal tanks. Why spend so much effort trying to keep your fragile units alive when an ISU152 can just wipe out enemy squads for you with one shot. it's all about doing more, with less.

Sometimes, you can't force something that is broken/weak into becoming a viable unit.

More for less...Well that is the POV that is killing any kind of diversity in the "meta". Oddly enough more for less implies that you do more for a lesser result. I believe you meant less is more, implying using people want to use less skill to achieve a greater result, that of victory.

That there is how a stale meta develops, Lenny's guide is MUCH less predictable than the current Soviet reliance on call-ins. Predictability is a major reason for game loss. It allows flow, the ability to launch attacks from multiple directions, as well as feints to draw units out of position for ambush tactics. It is a rare breed in the current state of the game.

I find most peoples problem with CoH2, is they still expect it to behave like CoH1.

Also I think you'll find most companies don't give much consideration to the average gamers opinion of balance, as usually but not always it is biased.

we just need a promod! please, people who made the coh1 promod!

get community polls, get the top-tier players to help balence it, it's the only way a relic game will ever get balenced!

we just need a promod! please, people who made the coh1 promod!

get community polls, get the top-tier players to help balence it, it's the only way a relic game will ever get balenced!

This.

I was going to say something along those lines

I might also add:


4: Do all of the above rather than complaining about it on forums

Warning TL;DR material.


I also feel that people don't want to learn how the units work. I also feel that a lot of players don't explore other factions enough to find exploits and holes for opportune moments. Instead complain about imbalance when their one trick wins don't work.

Nerf this Buff that. Make me win without trying.

The forum threads are becoming stale and uninteresting. I tend not to bash new players because well, they just don't get it of course. However when moderate players, such as myself, have more of an understanding; I fear this community will go nowhere.

I mean sure things are not perfect, so what, things take time to figure out and fix. From when I first started this game there was so much more wrong with it then it is now, I feel most things are fair.

Also team games are a joke because you have team where they just don't give a shit and lose then blame balance. as for other teams that work together and win because well, they are more organized.

I'd go on but i fear this post is to long already

Everybody here is suggesting balance changes. Balance changes aren't going to do shit. Sure, they'll mix up the meta for a while, but eventually you're always going to end up with the two or three most optimal unit compositions because the game's tech structure is so linear. The only way to construct a more diverse metagame is to give players more options, and to make those options fundamentally different. Just throwing more units at the problem and making changes to the units that already exists isn't going to change a thing. The game is still going to be linear, the line is just going to be a little bit longer is all.

Everybody here is suggesting balance changes. Balance changes aren't going to do shit. Sure, they'll mix up the meta for a while, but eventually you're always going to end up with the two or three most optimal unit compositions because the game's tech structure is so linear. The only way to construct a more diverse metagame is to give players more options, and to make those options fundamentally different. Just throwing more units at the problem and making changes to the units that already exists isn't going to change a thing. The game is still going to be linear, the line is just going to be a little bit longer is all.

Relic is only give us new Options by spamming more and more pointless commanders. But relic will never Change anything. Relic is like a lazy rock who never moves. The game should have much more Non-Docrinal Units and Upgrades but relic is not interested to make this game more fun.

Ist so idiotic that all the good Units, Upgrades and Options are locked in 10000000 commanders.And 90% of the commanders are so idiotically designed that nobody ever uses them.

Relic is only give us new Options by spamming more and more pointless commanders. But relic will never Change anything. Relic is like a lazy rock who never moves. The game should have much more Non-Docrinal Units and Upgrades but relic is not interested to make this game more fun.

Ist so idiotic that all the good Units, Upgrades and Options are locked in 10000000 commanders.And 90% of the commanders are so idiotically designed that nobody ever uses them.

i'm still using the default 3 soviet doctrines because the other good ones i have to pay for

Everybody here is suggesting balance changes. Balance changes aren't going to do shit. Sure, they'll mix up the meta for a while, but eventually you're always going to end up with the two or three most optimal unit compositions because the game's tech structure is so linear. The only way to construct a more diverse metagame is to give players more options, and to make those options fundamentally different. Just throwing more units at the problem and making changes to the units that already exists isn't going to change a thing. The game is still going to be linear, the line is just going to be a little bit longer is all.

exactly why the community needs to organize a elite mod for coh2. it seems like the only realistic solution.

More for less...Well that is the POV that is killing any kind of diversity in the "meta". Oddly enough more for less implies that you do more for a lesser result. I believe you meant less is more, implying using people want to use less skill to achieve a greater result, that of victory.

That there is how a stale meta develops, Lenny's guide is MUCH less predictable than the current Soviet reliance on call-ins. Predictability is a major reason for game loss. It allows flow, the ability to launch attacks from multiple directions, as well as feints to draw units out of position for ambush tactics. It is a rare breed in the current state of the game.

I find most peoples problem with CoH2, is they still expect it to behave like CoH1.

Also I think you'll find most companies don't give much consideration to the average gamers opinion of balance, as usually but not always it is biased.

youre rigth. Im not saying trying new stuff is bad but i think there is some psychology behind it. Top ranked players generally would not try new things. They don't want to jeopardize their ranking. this is a competitive game. It is tough to do new, unpredictable things when another option is safer anless risky.

Warning TL;DR material.


I also feel that people don't want to learn how the units work. I also feel that a lot of players don't explore other factions enough to find exploits and holes for opportune moments. Instead complain about imbalance when their one trick wins don't work.

Nerf this Buff that. Make me win without trying.

The forum threads are becoming stale and uninteresting. I tend not to bash new players because well, they just don't get it of course. However when moderate players, such as myself, have more of an understanding; I fear this community will go nowhere.

I mean sure things are not perfect, so what, things take time to figure out and fix. From when I first started this game there was so much more wrong with it then it is now, I feel most things are fair.

Also team games are a joke because you have team where they just don't give a shit and lose then blame balance. as for other teams that work together and win because well, they are more organized.

I'd go on but i fear this post is to long already

this.

we just need a promod! please, people who made the coh1 promod!

get community polls, get the top-tier players to help balence it, it's the only way a relic game will ever get balenced!

Kappatch is what you are looking for.

Warning TL;DR material.


I also feel that people don't want to learn how the units work. I also feel that a lot of players don't explore other factions enough to find exploits and holes for opportune moments. Instead complain about imbalance when their one trick wins don't work.

Nerf this Buff that. Make me win without trying.

The forum threads are becoming stale and uninteresting. I tend not to bash new players because well, they just don't get it of course. However when moderate players, such as myself, have more of an understanding; I fear this community will go nowhere.

I mean sure things are not perfect, so what, things take time to figure out and fix. From when I first started this game there was so much more wrong with it then it is now, I feel most things are fair.

Also team games are a joke because you have team where they just don't give a shit and lose then blame balance. as for other teams that work together and win because well, they are more organized.

I'd go on but i fear this post is to long already

Players in the top 10 talk about this stuff daily on their streams and forums as well. Of course the majority of players need to just "L2P" but that doesn't mean this game is in a fine and dandy state.

Everybody here is suggesting balance changes. Balance changes aren't going to do shit. Sure, they'll mix up the meta for a while, but eventually you're always going to end up with the two or three most optimal unit compositions because the game's tech structure is so linear. The only way to construct a more diverse metagame is to give players more options, and to make those options fundamentally different. Just throwing more units at the problem and making changes to the units that already exists isn't going to change a thing. The game is still going to be linear, the line is just going to be a little bit longer is all.

Relic isn't going to remake the whole game, you shouldn't be asking for or expecting that to happen.

I think there is certainly room to improve coh2. That said the ultimate result we all want is going to have to wait for coh3.

Relic could totally redesign the factions, but i would bet my life's savings that will not happen. without going there, we can only discuss tweaks.

personally i think Wehrmacht is the most well done and the others should mimic it, but vary in certain ways. for instance, change usf to make it more linear(cant got lt->maj, must build capt) but still maintain the flexibility. make soviets linear but vastly improve non-doc units and make the tiers cheapers. okw.... make it so trucks cant be set up more than X distance from the base? but definitely more linear. Making everyone linear will slow down the arms race, i believe. okw needs more than just that, but its a good starting point i think. With this change okw absolutely needs a panzer 4 and a raketenwerfer buff

Giving all tanks a fuel upkeep sounds like a good idea. maybe 7-10 for a medium and 15-20 for a heavy. Having 2 heavies at once should either be impossible or cripple your economy. it seems that half your popcap in heavies doesn't cripple your army, so it must be detrimental some other way

I personally love the game up until the latter ends of mid game. Micro intensive infantry battles, and then inf/lights, and then throw in a medium tank(s) and it's great. It's not too hard to push off a medium, let alone kill it. The problem comes when certain vehicle are doing 240/320 damage and have more than 1000 hp as compared to all the "little" guys with160dmg/640hp. True enough, they are expensive and should be good, but heavies have almost no drawbacks. It currently makes more sense to have two heavies than three/four mediums. Something should be done to alter that to make mediums more effective and heavies less so. Something as simple as speed could do wonders on that account, pehaps, im no pro,im brainstorming. improve all mediums speed by ~15-25%(lights increase too of course) and nerf heavies by about the same. It just never makes sense to not use heavies, which isnt the only core issue with the game, but it's certainly amongst the biggest issues (pun intended).

I dont think changing all teching to linear will screw over any faction or benefit one above the others, and if so it can be balanced better. Changes will be needed by all to make it work though. It will certainly lengthen early and mid game and hopefully give plenty of time for light vehicle fights and medium tank fights before heavies arrive. Personally i think tigers shouldn't be able to be fielded until the ~25 minute mark at the earliest with KT's further back. (basically make tiger available when the KT is now without caches/supply drops/whatever).

Warning TL;DR material.


I also feel that people don't want to learn how the units work. I also feel that a lot of players don't explore other factions enough to find exploits and holes for opportune moments. Instead complain about imbalance when their one trick wins don't work.

Nerf this Buff that. Make me win without trying.

The forum threads are becoming stale and uninteresting. I tend not to bash new players because well, they just don't get it of course. However when moderate players, such as myself, have more of an understanding; I fear this community will go nowhere.

I mean sure things are not perfect, so what, things take time to figure out and fix. From when I first started this game there was so much more wrong with it then it is now, I feel most things are fair.

Also team games are a joke because you have team where they just don't give a shit and lose then blame balance. as for other teams that work together and win because well, they are more organized.

I'd go on but i fear this post is to long already

Yes granted there are many units people just have zero clue how to use like the Panzerwerfer and the Sturmtiger but there are legit a large amount of units that are pretty much useless in any competitive game mode and this retarded notion that no game mode over 1v1 deserves to be balanced is probably one of the fastest thing's killing the community.

doubled post

I also feel that people don't want to learn how the units work. I also feel that a lot of players don't explore other factions enough to find exploits and holes for opportune moments. Instead complain about imbalance when their one trick wins don't work.

Nerf this Buff that. Make me win without trying.

The forum threads are becoming stale and uninteresting.

All this could well apply to yourself, its probably so.
But if you obs matches and look at the Sovietplayers the meta is becoming a jungle because of opkw. Of course the Is-2 is there but I cant think of any unit that I havent seen the last couple of days. The meta isnt becoming stale on the weaker factions, but in the stronger. Why change when youre already winning. Just repeat.

And reading is about creating. If the forum looks stale and uninteresting it is all about you.

I think there is certainly room to improve coh2. That said the ultimate result we all want is going to have to wait for coh3.

Relic could totally redesign the factions, but i would bet my life's savings that will not happen. without going there, we can only discuss tweaks.

personally i think Wehrmacht is the most well done and the others should mimic it, but vary in certain ways. for instance, change usf to make it more linear(cant got lt->maj, must build capt) but still maintain the flexibility. make soviets linear but vastly improve non-doc units and make the tiers cheapers. okw.... make it so trucks cant be set up more than X distance from the base? but definitely more linear. Making everyone linear will slow down the arms race, i believe. okw needs more than just that, but its a good starting point i think. With this change okw absolutely needs a panzer 4 and a raketenwerfer buff

Giving all tanks a fuel upkeep sounds like a good idea. maybe 7-10 for a medium and 15-20 for a heavy. Having 2 heavies at once should either be impossible or cripple your economy. it seems that half your popcap in heavies doesn't cripple your army, so it must be detrimental some other way

I personally love the game up until the latter ends of mid game. Micro intensive infantry battles, and then inf/lights, and then throw in a medium tank(s) and it's great. It's not too hard to push off a medium, let alone kill it. The problem comes when certain vehicle are doing 240/320 damage and have more than 1000 hp as compared to all the "little" guys with160dmg/640hp. True enough, they are expensive and should be good, but heavies have almost no drawbacks. It currently makes more sense to have two heavies than three/four mediums. Something should be done to alter that to make mediums more effective and heavies less so. Something as simple as speed could do wonders on that account, pehaps, im no pro,im brainstorming. improve all mediums speed by ~15-25%(lights increase too of course) and nerf heavies by about the same. It just never makes sense to not use heavies, which isnt the only core issue with the game, but it's certainly amongst the biggest issues (pun intended).

I dont think changing all teching to linear will screw over any faction or benefit one above the others, and if so it can be balanced better. Changes will be needed by all to make it work though. It will certainly lengthen early and mid game and hopefully give plenty of time for light vehicle fights and medium tank fights before heavies arrive. Personally i think tigers shouldn't be able to be fielded until the ~25 minute mark at the earliest with KT's further back. (basically make tiger available when the KT is now without caches/supply drops/whatever).

I agree with you on principle on heavy tanks.Except wehrmacht mediums are simply badly outclassed and its infantry can't stand upto allied shocks,paras and rifle blobs.Without tiger they have no hance at all.The 10%-20% matches wehr wins currently are by surviving till tiger.Pushing it further back is thus suicide for the last hope of ostheer,which is already dying.When talking off heavies we must also take into account ridiculous allied medium callins cost effectriveness compared to stock vehicles..

this.

Don't forget also:


"I don't want to risk my rank by playing anything other than the 4 doctrines "everyone" knows are the only good ones

But I will also complain about being bored."


Ever thought about how satisfying kicking someone's ass with units and commanders "everyone" thinks are useless might be?


Garden "everyone", "everyone" doesn't know pudding