Rework OKW to be more "Authentic"

I would like the OKW to be reworked so that it can "feel" more like the Germany Army on the Western Front at the time of the Bulge. I will mainly be talking about adding/swapping units and gameplay, so this won't really be a thread on balance.

Currently, the OKW feel like a completely made-up faction. It feels like the faction has no historical roots at all, unlike the Soviets or Ostheer. There are some things that should be changed.

What was the Situation like in 1944/1945?
As some of you may know, the Battle of the Bulge was an operation planned by Nazi Germany to quickly destroy the Allied forces in Belgium. Hitler hoped that a quick and decisive offensive would lead to a favorable peace treaty with the Western Allies. After that, Germany could then shift over its military forces to the Eastern Front. It was going to be a big offensive; whatever tanks and equipment were mustered up for this important operation.

As the situation grew dire, the German Army needed more tanks and vehicles. Even though the Pz4 and Panther were in production, the army needed more tanks for the operation. Self-propelled guns and assault guns were used as make-shift tanks.

Now What is Wrong With the OKW?
The roster just doesn't fit the real situation! Also the OKW gameplay is pretty wonky and could be improved.

Comments on Existing Units

Obersoldaten
Not much to say about this unit except that it is woefully OP and ahistorical. People have said that it represents the SS troops of the armed forces but i think this can be implemented in another fashion. IMO the Obers should be toned down and act like another form of line infantry for the OKW. Better Volksgrenadiers anyone?

Panzer II "Luchs"
What is this unit doing here? It is 1945! This tank should definitely stay in the game but not in the spot it currently occupies (light vehicle and infantry killer). I think it should be reworked as a scout and reconnaissance vehicle. Perhaps it should come out a little earlier but have its role changed. It should then be moved to the medic truck.

Volksgrenadiers
This unit represents the Bulge-era Germany Army well, but they become super soldiers at higher vets (vet 4 and 5 need to be disappear from the game). Also, the presence of panzerschrecks on these troops is just silly. An MP40 or MP44 upgrade would fit better on these units. They are combat infantry after all and not tank hunter squads

King Tiger
Make this doctrinal. It has the power of a heavy call-in yet is a non-doctrinal vehicle. Replaced with non-doctrinal Panzer 4. Would be interesting if it got moved to Elite Armor doctrine. Should be done for the sake of balance.

New Units that Should be Added

Stug 3/4
Since the Germans needed to supplement ther existing tank forces, they needed assault guns to fill the gaps. This is why the Stug would be a great fit for the OKW faction. It could be a great mid-game unit that is useful against most targets. It would be built in the mechanized support truck.

Wespe
I am fan of "conventional" units like the Wespe. It is silly to the Stuka as the OKW artillery piece. I guess the Stuka could stay in the game...but the Wespe could replace it. The Wespe would function as a light artillery piece that clears enemy defenses in preparation for an assault. It is also a mobile artillery piece so it can keep up with troops and tanks during the offensive. This could be built from main HQ building?

Panzer 4
If the King Tiger becomes doctirnal, then the Panzer 4 should be its replacement. This would give the OKW a solid medium tank. Could be built from Mechanized Truck. Considering it was more common than the King Tiger, it would make sense that it is non-doctrinal.

Hummel
This doctrinal heavy artillery piece would be a great fit for the OKW since their offmap artillery is so expensive. The Hummel would provide excellent artillery support. Should be present in a support-oriented OKW commander.

Marder III
Could be a fun and unique doctrinal unit since the Jagdpanzer 4 already exists. The Marder III would function as a cheap and effective anti-tank vehicle, but would suffer from extreme fragility.

OKW Gameplay

We all know that there are major issues with OKW design. They cannot build many vehicles due to their fuel penalty so players end up building a ton of infantry. A turtling and campy OKW player is also a pain to dislodge. These issues need to be addressed and don't fit into what the OKW should be.

A More Offensively Suited Force and Less Camping!
By being able to field a different variety of tanks and having the fuel penalty removed, the OKW can be more offensively oriented. This would fit the Bulge-era German force as it prepares for its major offensive against the Allies. The tradeoff would be the OKW would probably need its defensive tools removed or cut down. Things like Fortification Doctrine should probably be removed or altered. The Ostheer should be the faction that have the tools to defend; the OKW would have the tools to attack.

Even though the OKW can attack with their infantry blobs, it still feels like they are stalling for late-game tanks like the Panther and King Tiger. It would be great if this stalling was removed so the OKW can attack with tanks and infantry more often. This would promote more combined arms play and less infantry-only boredom.


Now i hope you enjoyed my post and please comment on my ideas. I apologize for the wall of text

Sorry but I guess this won't happen unless Relic goes full derp and makes modding in its true colors and forms possible!

OKW authentic? try to google what OKW is, wikipedia will say Oberkommando der Wehrmacht

Ninja, argh, just get ingame, select 1v1 automatch, and play.

I'm going to theorize that the StuG III and Panzer IV Ausf. H were originally going to be stock units. Pre-release screenshots show large amounts of Panzer IV Ausf. H's (named J in game), despite them appearing only in one underpowered doctrine as a late-game call-in. Also, when you call in a Sturmtiger, the voice-over sometimes calls it a StuG III, implying the StuG III was intended when they were recording audio.

I really wish they kept the old concepts, but Relic being Relic, they couldn't resist the allure of axis ubertanks

Ninja, argh, just get ingame, select 1v1 automatch, and play.

He has a point though, if you're going to flaunt authenticity and bill your faction as the "western German forces in 1944-1945", then you should probably be authentic. Relic flaunts authenticity but OKW has little in common with the actual forces, OKW has no StuG's and no Panzer IV J's, the most authentic thing about the faction is the large number of Panthers used.

"Authenticity"? No offence man, but in this game, an infantryman with a full power rifle has a range of what, 30 meters, tanks sustain multiple HVAP hits and what not. I could go on all day but in my infinite generosity I will spare you.
Now if this game were to model the ca. late 1944 Wehrmacht "authentically", it would be no fun whatsoever, since the unfortunate Wehrmacht player would not stand the proverbial snowflakes' chance in hell, as he would be outnumbered, outgunned, outsupplied at every junction, that much is trivial.

"Authenticity"? No offence man, but in this game, an infantryman with a full power rifle has a range of what, 30 meters, tanks sustain multiple HVAP hits and what not. I could go on all day but in my infinite generosity I will spare you.
Now if this game were to model the ca. late 1944 Wehrmacht "authentically", it would be no fun whatsoever, since the unfortunate Wehrmacht player would not stand the proverbial snowflakes' chance in hell, as he would be outnumbered, outgunned, outsupplied at every junction, that much is trivial.

You're thinking of realism and we all know that COH2 isn't a simulator. QUinn Duffy envisaged this game as an authentic WW2 experience. This means the sounds and units have to be genuinely inspired or alike what was there in 19444/1945. I think the OKW has few if any resemblance to that Bulge-era army.

If u remove the best OKW units,then there is no point in keeping the fuel/munition caps as thats the design logic.

No they don't, then again, this applies to all factions. I haven't yet seen the ubiquitious horses that powered both the RKKA and the Wehrmacht ingame.
Still, your posts seem to be mainly driven by balance concerns, and are pretty spectacularly off not in the least because you don't play much, only play 4v4, and only play one faction. When I played 4v4 US in vCOH, Scheldt etc. my outlook was similar, so this is not meant to be condescending, but broaden your horizon!

I don't know... Volksgrenadiere with StG44 upgrade would just overlap with Sturmpioniere and the MP40 is just terrible in the game. And then also putting in P4 and StuG III G (which would need rebalancing in the current state) along with full Fuel income would make it also awfully similar to Ostheer I feel.

What you say about the Luchs would make sense in terms of "authenticity", however it would overlap as a Scout with the Infrared Halftrack and I don't know how much use there is in a dedicated scouting tank. Usually the Puma should also be a scouting vehicle primarily, even if the weapon was very powerful for such a purpose.

Units like Wespe or Hummel could be cool of course.

Well, Relic won't do anything of this anyway.

As much as I would love to see historical accuracy, it just wont happen. I agree that some of the things you have made out is nothing more than for balance. OKW then by all logic should have lots of 88s as they did at bastogne, but then that would be game breaking lol

No they don't, then again, this applies to all factions. I haven't yet seen the ubiquitious horses that powered both the RKKA and the Wehrmacht ingame.
Still, your posts seem to be mainly driven by balance concerns, and are pretty spectacularly off not in the least because you don't play much, only play 4v4, and only play one faction. When I played 4v4 US in vCOH, Scheldt etc. my outlook was similar, so this is not meant to be condescending, but broaden your horizon!

im not sure why u are turning this into an Axis vs Allied thing. My intention was to make the OKW feel more like a conventional faction with inspiration from the Bulge-era Army. Right now, they gameplay is really wonky and the faction feels alien. Thematically, the faction feels like a bunch of random stuff thrown together and then called "authentic"

The guy that literally plays only soviets exclusively 4vs4 suggests some changes.
Made my day.

This has to happen, there is no reason to keep such an inbalanced faction as I dont want Brits 2.0 in the end.

Way too many people would like to see OKW reworked

Pls Relic....

If u remove the best OKW units,then there is no point in keeping the fuel/munition caps as thats the design logic.

The funny thing is the StuG III Ausf. G would just be a Panzer IV without a turret and the Panzer IV Ausf. J would be cheaper Panzer IV with only marginally worse performance. So the fuel penalty would remain, but the primary vehicles would be cheaper and still stand up to Allied vehicles.

"Authenticity"? No offence man, but in this game, an infantryman with a full power rifle has a range of what, 30 meters, tanks sustain multiple HVAP hits and what not. I could go on all day but in my infinite generosity I will spare you.
Now if this game were to model the ca. late 1944 Wehrmacht "authentically", it would be no fun whatsoever, since the unfortunate Wehrmacht player would not stand the proverbial snowflakes' chance in hell, as he would be outnumbered, outgunned, outsupplied at every junction, that much is trivial.

Another thing to note is HVAP round is the same as APCR. Which means their damage is caused by kinetic energy alone and not the explosive load like APHEBC/APCBC shell. Unless you can aim perfectly at the weak point, HVAP and APCR shells will penetrate and cause little damage, allowing a tank to take multiple of it.

Another thing to note is HVAP round is the same as APCR. Which means their damage is caused by kinetic energy alone and not the explosive load like APHEBC/APCBC shell. Unless you can aim perfectly at the weak point, HVAP and APCR shells will penetrate and cause little damage, allowing a tank to take multiple of it.

Actually the vast majority of HVAP penetrations resulted at least in mission kills. Instances of tanks receiving even one HVAP penetration and remaining combat effective were rare. Much of this misconception is owed to the practice of spending multiple rounds even on a stricken tank to either be sure it was incapacitated (hardly suprising in combat, you dont want people shooting back at you) and/or making sure it could not be repaired and put back into service.

im not sure why u are turning this into an Axis vs Allied thing. My intention was to make the OKW feel more like a conventional faction with inspiration from the Bulge-era Army. Right now, they gameplay is really wonky and the faction feels alien. Thematically, the faction feels like a bunch of random stuff thrown together and then called "authentic"

Not turning this into anything. But looking at your recent posts, they seem to be concerned with balance - in your case, you postulate an Allied inferiority - and that is totally at odds with the facts. As far as the faction (OKW) is concerned, I agree with you to a point. Its blobby, its boring to play with and against and features quite a bit of cheese, but its actually fairly well balanced against both its opponents, while Ostheer quite obviously isnt.

Not turning this into anything. But looking at your recent posts, they seem to be concerned with balance - in your case, you postulate an Allied inferiority - and that is totally at odds with the facts. As far as the faction (OKW) is concerned, I agree with you to a point. Its blobby, its boring to play with and against and features quite a bit of cheese, but its actually fairly well balanced against both its opponents, while Ostheer quite obviously isnt.

if u read my post at the first paragraph, i mentioned that the thread is not entirely concerned with balance, but mostly gameplay stuff

Asking for changes to a faction is an utter waste of time I'm afraid.

The only analogy I can think of is praying to a god for something. Lots of huff and puff, but nothing happens.

Sorry, but getting Relic to change OKW is a waste of time. The fanboys are too invested in it to change and to change it anyway would just be admitting you made a badly designed faction.

It's a shame, I was playing OKW before and it was laughably OP... Coming out of Soviets or Yankees, OKW power in pretty much all stages of the game is just crazy. Usually trying out the opposing faction you usually see how you were wrong about certain things (this is the case with Ostheer). However with OKW, I wasn't wrong. Everything in that faction was incredibly strong, even the supposedly underpowered Panzer IVJ doctrine was extremely dangerous...