Demos

I agree with Bud. Also, I changed the title to get rid of the ol' greengrocer's apostrophe. I eagerly await your thank's

Thanks, Mr Greedy! ( I should have spotted that )

Thanks, Mr Greedy! ( I should have spotted that )

At least you have a friend in the "didn't spot mistake" club.

At least you have a friend in the "didn't spot mistake" club.

That's why I like working with you, Steel. Srsly

To those going "HERP DERP HOW 2 COYNTER AXIS OP INFANTRY LATE GAME LOLOLOL"

The Allies have a ridiculous number of good AI tools at their disposal including, but not limited to:

1 - Amazing AI tanks (Sherman, Scott, T34/85, Is-2)
2 - Soviet snipers
3 - 0.50 cal HMG/Maxims
4 - Paratroopers - by far the strongest infantry squad in the game when equipped with M1919s.
5 - Double BAR rifles (beat vet 3 LMG grens with ease when also vet 3).
6 - Indirect fire options such as: Katy, Pack Howi, 120mm mortar

Of course Cons can't stand up to Obers, and on the flip side of the coin Grens/Volks can't stand up to Shocks. Fact of the matter... at the top levels, Allies have advantages at every point in the game.

1. flak halftrack (supported), stuka, KT, Tiger, Brummbar, P4, stuge E
2. ill give you that
3. .50 cal comes too late. and is usless vs Wehr
4. They are if u use their abilities, but obers have abilities also. and then u will have no muni for p47
5. I don't get ur point. double BAR'd rifles should beat lmg grens
6.i kinda agree. but then again, stuka makes short work of this. and mortor half track

As for allies having the advantage at all stages. I disagree and will never agree with that.

You've always been able to detonate demos even when they're detected and being "swept" up by the pio squad. It's super bullshit.

Just the entire fact that demos are some kind of super mine able to erase squads it poor design. Maybe if they could be shot with small arms... MAYBE then they would be okay. I'd prefer to see them used as a building denial/anti-bunker tool but the way they are right now is far from fair or balanced.

To those going "HERP DERP HOW 2 COYNTER AXIS OP INFANTRY LATE GAME LOLOLOL"

The Allies have a ridiculous number of good AI tools at their disposal including, but not limited to:

1 - Amazing AI tanks (Sherman, Scott, T34/85, Is-2)
2 - Soviet snipers
3 - 0.50 cal HMG/Maxims
4 - Paratroopers - by far the strongest infantry squad in the game when equipped with M1919s.
5 - Double BAR rifles (beat vet 3 LMG grens with ease when also vet 3).
6 - Indirect fire options such as: Katy, Pack Howi, 120mm mortar

Of course Cons can't stand up to Obers, and on the flip side of the coin Grens/Volks can't stand up to Shocks. Fact of the matter... at the top levels, Allies have advantages at every point in the game.

Easy Killer, pointing out that demos are a useful tool for countering massed shrek blobs and ober supersoldiers isn't what I would consider synonymous with "HERP DERP HOW 2 COYNTER AXIS OP INFANTRY LATE GAME LOLOLOL".

1 - Because the axis have no AI vehicles right?
2 - Sure.
3 - are you serious? Obers will decrew a 50 cal head on.
4 - can you back that up?
5 - As they should. What do double bars do to elite OKW infantry?
6 - Because the axis has no indirect fire right?


All of this is beside the point, Demos reward good play, and punish lazy play. And I feel like that is a good thing.

1. flak halftrack (supported), stuka, KT, Tiger, Brummbar, P4, stuge E
2. ill give you that
3. .50 cal comes too late. and is usless vs Wehr
4. They are if u use their abilities, but obers have abilities also. and then u will have no muni for p47
5. I don't get ur point. double BAR'd rifles should beat lmg grens
6.i kinda agree. but then again, stuka makes short work of this. and mortor half track

As for allies having the advantage at all stages. I disagree and will never agree with that.

Allies have, by far, the best early game infantry/light vehicles. Cons beat both Volks and Grens and when properly managed are able to stand up to Sturms MP:MP. Rifles are... yeah... we know how rifles are.

Then the M3/M20/M15 come and, again when properly managed, can do a great job at harassing the flanks and generally keeping the Axis pinned in a small area. Also tends to force a PaK from Ost, which is a huge MP investment at that point in the game.

Early-Mid game you see Shocks/Paras/Allied indirect fire (120mm/Pack Howi) that shut down everything short of Obers while the indirect fire bleeds/wipes with no risk (and frankly no skill involved).

Then the Sherman or Scott hits the field, far before Ost could even think of fielding a P4, let alone a Panther from OKW. Now the fun, fun squad wipe slot machine style game-play gets rolling.

Finally, Allies have access to Is-2 and T34/85s which are pound for pound the absolute best tanks in the game. Is-2 is much stronger than a Tiger and nearly as strong as a KT (which costs waaaaaay more). Plus great doctrinal abilities like Mark Target (Mark + Jacksons is just disgusting, RIP Tigers and RIP Panthers all day), Incendiary, P47s, etc. Allied late game is silly strong.

I'm not saying Axis *can't* win, of course they can. The imbalance is probably something like 60/40, so still pretty good all things considered (except Ost in 1v1s, they just suck). I'll also point out how much Allies have to crutch on their doctrines, which is unfortunate in my opinion.

Allies have, by far, the best early game infantry/light vehicles. Cons beat both Volks and Grens and when properly managed are able to stand up to Sturms MP:MP. Rifles are... yeah... we know how rifles are.

Then the M3/M20/M15 come and, again when properly managed, can do a great job at harassing the flanks and generally keeping the Axis pinned in a small area. Also tends to force a PaK from Ost, which is a huge MP investment at that point in the game.

Early-Mid game you see Shocks/Paras/Allied indirect fire (120mm/Pack Howi) that shut down everything short of Obers while the indirect fire bleeds/wipes with no risk (and frankly no skill involved).

Then the Sherman or Scott hits the field, far before Ost could even think of fielding a P4, let alone a Panther from OKW. Now the fun, fun squad wipe slot machine style game-play gets rolling.

Finally, Allies have access to Is-2 and T34/85s which are pound for pound the absolute best tanks in the game. Is-2 is much stronger than a Tiger and nearly as strong as a KT (which costs waaaaaay more). Plus great doctrinal abilities like Mark Target (Mark + Jacksons is just disgusting, RIP Tigers and RIP Panthers all day), Incendiary, P47s, etc. Allied late game is silly strong.

I'm not saying Axis *can't* win, of course they can. The imbalance is probably something like 60/40, so still pretty good all things considered (except Ost in 1v1s, they just suck). I'll also point out how much Allies have to crutch on their doctrines, which is unfortunate in my opinion.

I agree with CieZ's Points. Why must everyone cry axis OP all the time and at every point in which someone makes the argument that allies do have capable units.

yeah! nerf op allies, buff axis!

no srsly...

cons dont win against volks. maybe at close range but a good OKW knows this and stays at range. and most important: volks usally go with a kubel or a storm pioneer. and thats unbeatable for cons.

but yeah.... the allied light vehicles are so op... its not like you just have to faust dat m3 2 times until boom.

and a T85 is not even as good as a panther.

First off faust is only on falls for OKW. Ostheer have faust on Grens. Cons do win against volks if you play them right just as the volks can win against cons if played right. You invalidated your own argument with "good OKW" for then it would also imply a "bad soviet"; see what I am saying?

yeah! nerf op allies, buff axis!

no srsly...

cons dont win against volks. maybe at close range but a good OKW knows this and stays at range. and most important: volks usally go with a kubel or a storm pioneer. and thats unbeatable for cons.

but yeah.... the allied light vehicles are so op... its not like you just have to faust dat m3 2 times until boom.

and a T85 is not even as good as a panther.

Cons have it much easier to get in a favourable situation.
With a hoorah they can close in, so they have their close-mid advantage. Molotovs can be used to deny green cover, while your cons have green cover.
Cons usually win when both opponents know what they are doing.

Kübels are not much of a threat. 2 Cons + at nade + hoorah, will force any kübel off.

In this thread the Stuka was mentioned several times. I noticed that since the release of WFA people adapted and now dodge the Stuka barrage often.

First off faust is only on falls for OKW. Ostheer have faust on Grens. Cons do win against volks if you play them right just as the volks can win against cons if played right. You invalidated your own argument with "good OKW" for then it would also imply a "bad soviet"; see what I am saying?

in an even skilled match volks will win against cons. and ostheer has rakwerfer at T0 for anti tank. so both axis can easily kill the M3 or M20.

and most of the time the OKW will send in a storm pioneer + kubel. now tell me how to easily kill them.

in an even skilled match volks will win against cons. and ostheer has rakwerfer at T0 for anti tank. so both axis can easily kill the M3 or M20.

and most of the time the OKW will send in a storm pioneer + kubel. now tell me how to easily kill them.

1. Ostheer does not have a puppchen.
2. Iv seen cons win just as often as volks in early game. Watch Sib, or Jeslin play you'll see what I mean.
3. Then dont get M3 or M20? Use AA Half-track because it can actually suppress?
4. I can not tell you how to easily kill anything because it is l2p issue mate, know the stats of the units you use before you complain they dont do anything.

I agree with CieZ's Points. Why must everyone cry axis OP all the time and at every point in which someone makes the argument that allies do have capable units.

That isn't what is happening here.

Nobody is crying axis OP, but it is worth taking into consideration that demo charges are a fantastic (and cost effective) counter to some axis units. I have no problem with making changes, but I would much prefer to see demos stay capable of blob busting and unit baiting.

First off faust is only on falls for OKW. Ostheer have faust on Grens. Cons do win against volks if you play them right just as the volks can win against cons if played right. You invalidated your own argument with "good OKW" for then it would also imply a "bad soviet"; see what I am saying?

First of all, that isn't how english works. One player being good is not mutually exlusive to both players being competent. I think his point was just that the allied early game advantage is not universally applicable, as good micro can help to nullify the advantages cons/rifleman have over volks/grens.

In any case, it looks to me like this thread is drifitng off the topic of DEMO CHARGES.

1. Ostheer does not have a puppchen.
2. Iv seen cons win just as often as volks in early game. Watch Sib, or Jeslin play you'll see what I mean.
3. Then dont get M3 or M20? Use AA Half-track because it can actually suppress?
4. I can not tell you how to easily kill anything because it is l2p issue mate, know the stats of the units you use before you complain they dont do anything.

i mean OKW has rakwerfer, im sry.

someone said allied light vehicles are op, thats why i mentioned them. but as i said they are easily killed.

l2p issue? kubel is hard to kill if the OKW player microes it and the supporting infantry good.

but ill stop here now. you guys will keep saying that allies are totally balanced. the 30% allies and 70% axis search rates are totally not there because unbalanced game..

allies will lose 1v1 against any axis vehicle too. you need multiple allies vehicles to kill 1 axis vehicles like 2 t34 against 1 panther. and you know wath? the 2 t34 have a higher popcap and higher cost then the single panther. but yeah... its balanced. allies only have to invest more ressources then axis to defeat tanks...

as i said earlier, ill stop here right now. i wont post anything in this thread anymore. i will never agree with you guys and you will never agree with me. its an endless circle.

That isn't what is happening here.

Nobody is crying axis OP, but it is worth taking into consideration that demo charges are a fantastic (and cost effective) counter to some axis units. I have no problem with making changes, but I would much prefer to see demos stay capable of blob busting and unit baiting.



First of all, that isn't how english works. One player being good is not mutually exlusive to both players being competent. I think his point was just that the allied early game advantage is not universally applicable, as good micro can help to nullify the advantages cons/rifleman have over volks/grens.

In any case, it looks to me like this thread is drifitng off the topic of DEMO CHARGES.

yes. this is wath i meant. microing will nullify the advantage. and yes this thread is going off topic, thats why i wont post here anymore. to keep it on topic.

That isn't what is happening here.

Nobody is crying axis OP, but it is worth taking into consideration that demo charges are a fantastic (and cost effective) counter to some axis units. I have no problem with making changes, but I would much prefer to see demos stay capable of blob busting and unit baiting.



First of all, that isn't how english works. One player being good is not mutually exlusive to both players being competent. I think his point was just that the allied early game advantage is not universally applicable, as good micro can help to nullify the advantages cons/rifleman have over volks/grens.

1). Some where in fact crying axis op. I was agreeing with CieZ upon his points of the power allies have.
2). If one person is considered good and the other sees them as being good then that said person is either inherently better or worse than the good player. That is the logic that i stated.
3). micro can nullify the advantages of cons/rifles but also can bolster them. Thus back to ^^ logic

2). If one person is considered good and the other sees them as being good then that said person is either inherently better or worse than the good player. That is the logic that i stated.
3). micro can nullify the advantages of cons/rifles but also can bolster them. Thus back to ^^ logic

So let me get your "logic" straight, Person A is considered good.

Thus Person B is EITHER better or worse than his opponent.

That is exactly what you didn't say in your first post, You alluded to player B being "bad soviets".

P.S. (fix your signature homie)

So let me get your "logic" straight, Person A is considered good.

Thus Person B is EITHER better or worse than his opponent.

That is exactly what you didn't say in your first post, You alluded to player B being "bad soviets".

P.S. (fix your signature homie)

I did allude to bad on the premise said poster referenced losing. Their is a winner and a loser. Thus by whatever rng/reason one person is worse because they were unable to pull in the big W.

Fix my sig? Haha you mean the spelling of untill? Mate its a direct english translation of a german soldier lol I cant change it

I'm not saying Axis *can't* win, of course they can. The imbalance is probably something like 60/40, so still pretty good all things considered (except Ost in 1v1s, they just suck). I'll also point out how much Allies have to crutch on their doctrines, which is unfortunate in my opinion.

Thing is, it's EASIER to win as axis/OKW by playing badly than to win as allies by playing regularly. Allies have the tools to be stronger but they have to perform better. OKW is WAY more forgiving in the sense that if allies don't abuse of squadwiping tools, they don't stand a chance with "regular engagements" on the long run.

demo's should only be able to detonate when the engineer that planted that is in a certain range. This way you can at least expect demos when there are enemy engineers nearby and you dont randomly lose squads all over the map.

Not my idea!