Commander Overhaul Proposal

I find that instead of introducing new commanders for the 2 original factions,the existing commanders that are barely used should be overhauled.I will try to give my list of overhauled ostheer commanders as a player of that faction.Invite soviet players to do the same.Many many useless doctrines are just stagnating the metagame.

Commanders needing change -

1]Festung support doctrine -
(current)
Mortar halftrack
Smoke bombs(useless)
Relief infantry(almost useless)
Lefh18(small buff)
Sector artillery

Options -By definition a defensive doctrine.
Change smoke bombs to give camoflage for paks.That will give this doctrine sorely lacking defensive AT power.
Change relief infantry -to make this doctrine really popular - veteran mg42 squad at 0/1cp.These will come with incendiary round available and be quite useful.Give a nice earlygame defensive option with vet mg 42 supported by mortar halftrack(which would delay teching and armor) but can be compensated by less vulnerable paks.Or artillery field officer to make use of lefh howitzer.

Tube arty in general is a seperate balance issue concerning all; factions.

2]Jaeger Infantry Doctrine
(current)
Ambush camoflage
g43
Tactical movement(almost useless)
Light artillery Barrage
Stuka Close support

Options - By definition an aggressive infantry play doctrine.
Remove tactical movement for stormtroopers.Since this is an infantry doctrine it needs an infantry unit,since it has no armor.
Or a call-in gren/osttruppen squad with a panzershreck to give this doctrine infantry AT to supplement g43 units alreday bleeding munitions.
The tactical movementability itself can recieve a small boost with a small recieved accuracy bonus while active(muni cost may be adjusted correspondingly)

3]Storm doctrine -
Description(The Storm Doctrine favors strategies that seek to overwhelm the enemy with fast-moving, hard-hitting Ostheer infantry power. Soften your opponent's defenses with artillery and blitz your grenadiers and panzergrenadiers into the gap!)Offensive infantry and arty apparently.
(current)
ambush camo
riegel anti tank mine
tactical movement
lefh18arty
stuka bombing strike

Add stormtroopers for ambush camo .Or add assault grenadiers for ambush camo.And add slight buff to muni cost and recieved accuracy when using tac movement.

Or keep ambush camo and replace tac movement with stormtroopers.

4]Blitzkrieg Doctrine
(current)
Panzer tactician
Recon overflight
Tactical movement(bad)
Command tank(bad)
Stuka Close support

Stug call-in for command tank
In place of tac movement -Either buffed tactical movement or stormtroopers or halftrack with pzgrens in it.Since this is 'blitzkrieg.Or an offensive infantry upgrade like g43.

5]German infantry Doctrine -Probably the most useless doctrine in game
(current)
Arty field officer(useless without lefh)
Tactical movement(useless,overuse of this skill)
relief infantry(mostly useless)
Frag bomb
Light infantry barrage

Main problem-no AT options.
Solve replace any of the 3 useless ones by either camoflaged pak ability or 1 shreck osttruppen/grenadier.
Replace artillery officer by assault grenadiers(if using camo pak on the other one)or vet 1 mg42.
I believe with pak40 nerfed cloak is no longer an issue.


6]German mechanized Doctrine -
(current)
LEFh18
smoke bombs(useless)
command tank(not useful for price)
spotting scope
LMG grenadier in halftrack

Replace smoke bombs with panzer tactician(combo of p.tactician and spotting scope MAY attarct people even without any call in armor or infantry or inf upgrade)
Command tank with stug

i don't get why you think most of the abilities you pointed out are useless.

smoke screen is great. hard to use it defensively because you need to anticipate really far ahead, but can also be used offensively to block sites of at guns, TDs,

tactical movement, make your entire infantry force move faster for mere 40 muni. i find it really useful

command tank is really good against infantry and gives nice buff

artillery field officer's focus fire is awesome, and coordinated barage works well with other arty units, too.

Yeah agree with pigsoup, P4 command tank is excellent at what it does, smoke bombs are much better now that you can choose where they fall (never really have the chance to use it, but that's because elite troops, mech assault and mobile def are better in 1v1), and tactical movement is absolutely incredible with shreks. Maybe not the most useful ability, but I've played a bunch of 1v1s where my partner pops it and chases down tanks with ease.

I agree that relief infantry isn't very good, and I personally never use ambush camo due to the high micro intensity of using the ability to full effect. But, I know so people swear by ambush camo so idk. I think those abilities, as well as the Lefh need to be looked at individually, rather than the commanders.

Don't even bother Mate. Relic aren't going to improve any of the current systems. Working as intended.

Don't even bother Mate. Relic aren't going to improve any of the current systems. Working as intended.

Yeah that's the spirit! Screw trying to make things better, just accept the crap.

Yeah that's the spirit! Screw trying to make things better, just accept the crap.

Cruzz already fixed almost every balance problem with Kappatch and Relic has turned their nose up at it. All of the changes are things the community asked for in thread after thread.

i don't get why you think most of the abilities you pointed out are useless.

smoke screen is great. hard to use it defensively because you need to anticipate really far ahead, but can also be used offensively to block sites of at guns, TDs,

tactical movement, make your entire infantry force move faster for mere 40 muni. i find it really useful

command tank is really good against infantry and gives nice buff

artillery field officer's focus fire is awesome, and coordinated barage works well with other arty units, too.

Smoke screen is useless.Costs 50 munitions for a non-lethal ability.Worst of all plane arrives too slow,and ostheer can already use mortar smoke.It in no way makes the doctrine popular or increases useability.

Well tac movement is also more or less shit,because ostheer units excel at long-mid ranges.Closing gives little benefits and in no way makes it an attractive option.

Command tank is waay too pricey,if it was 100 fuel it would be attractive.A panzer4 over a command tank anyday.Unless i'm already fielding 3pz4s or 2 panthers.

Arty officer focus fire is not awesome ,its marginally useful and bleeds muni earlygame when u need lmg upgrades and shrecks.If it was as useful as u say u would see it more often.

All these marginal useful/useless units killing number of commanders and making for a stale meta.

Tactical movement is great! Only 40 muni and all your infantry will basically ooraah for a longer time. Very useful specially if you are chasing a tank with panzergrenadiers! Command tank is good, specially if you try to tech for panthers. It gives reliable infantry killing power and buffs your infantry and paks. Yes, artillery officer is very useless. Smoke bombs are great. See that annoing maxim screen or fighting position, and your mortar is dead or somewhere else? Just call some smoke and move your infantry!

stuka smoke drop is fucking amazing. i've saved tanks with it multiple times; i just wish it was on more than 2 commanders.

tactical movement can be used for chasing as well as kiting and moving past HMGs. or you can just use it to get guys into place faster. very good.

command tank is fine. not a great tank but it's ok and the aura is good for camping.

artillery officer is cool but kind of hard to use and really reliant on also buying artillery. i don't like him much outside of joint operations.

Yeah ,so many great abilities and yet noone gives a shit about these doctrines for some reason.

because there are better doctrines or other issues (like jaeger infantry having 5 mun costing globals...). just because they're fine abilities doesn't mean there are not better ones.

because there are better doctrines or other issues (like jaeger infantry having 5 mun costing globals...). just because they're fine abilities doesn't mean there are not better ones.

Why not delete the commanders then?No one ever uses them anyway.

Abilities on itself aren't bad, just that there are other commander which have them that are just plain better.

Just fixing the Ostheer teching costs so you can actually get a panther cheaper than say tiger etc. would make these doctrines more usable, methinks i could be wrong...