me and my mate played an 2on2 as okw and ostherr on rails&metal vs 2 us players both were spamming like hell to a point where we couldnt hold it any longer and lost how can u beat spammers like this?
this game is getting really frustrating for us and im seriously at a point where i dont want to play it anymore cause its just to aids and relic doenst care
replay:http://www.coh2.org/replay/27778/spamming-diuble-us-how-to-counter-it
how to defend this?
3 Dec 2014, 07:08 AM
#1
Posts: 8
4 Dec 2014, 10:11 AM
#2
Posts: 87
I am by no means a pro but here is my suggestions:
1) Don't attempt to close in on rifles with your sturms unless short distance, they will get wrecked on the way in. They aren't as strong as they once were.
2) Both you and your partner need to work on unit preservation; retreat units don't let them get squad wiped.
3) especially vs US, you want AT out by 6-7 mins to counter HT, so I'd recommmend going 3xVolks, Rakenwhatever, T1(or T2 don't matter personal choice), T3 get out obers or fast luchs
4) if your partner is Ostheer I say do what Axis does best: play the waiting game; have him capture a fuel, bunker up and hold it and if he can do it well have him throw in an opel truck to aid OKW player if possible.
1) Don't attempt to close in on rifles with your sturms unless short distance, they will get wrecked on the way in. They aren't as strong as they once were.
2) Both you and your partner need to work on unit preservation; retreat units don't let them get squad wiped.
3) especially vs US, you want AT out by 6-7 mins to counter HT, so I'd recommmend going 3xVolks, Rakenwhatever, T1(or T2 don't matter personal choice), T3 get out obers or fast luchs
4) if your partner is Ostheer I say do what Axis does best: play the waiting game; have him capture a fuel, bunker up and hold it and if he can do it well have him throw in an opel truck to aid OKW player if possible.
4 Dec 2014, 10:18 AM
#3
Posts: 8
okay gonna try this thx u for the answer 
4 Dec 2014, 10:52 AM
#4
Posts: 209
When facing Rifle spam there are two thing that could help anihilate them Luchs II and AA Halftrack both were not present on the field and no Obers so the most powerful AI units were not used.
4 Dec 2014, 10:59 AM
#5
Posts: 186
I am by no means a pro but here is my suggestions:
1) Don't attempt to close in on rifles with your sturms unless short distance, they will get wrecked on the way in. They aren't as strong as they once were.
2) Both you and your partner need to work on unit preservation; retreat units don't let them get squad wiped.
3) especially vs US, you want AT out by 6-7 mins to counter HT, so I'd recommmend going 3xVolks, Rakenwhatever, T1(or T2 don't matter personal choice), T3 get out obers or fast luchs
4) if your partner is Ostheer I say do what Axis does best: play the waiting game; have him capture a fuel, bunker up and hold it and if he can do it well have him throw in an opel truck to aid OKW player if possible.
opels don't work on allied players anymore, just heads up on that.
4 Dec 2014, 11:56 AM
#6
Posts: 186
Sometimes you gotta give up some land and minimize losses. Try to get back by assaulting with a critical number rather than holding dearly to certain spots of interest. It's all very situational, of course...
14 Jan 2015, 19:58 PM
#7
Posts: 327
When facing Rifle spam there are two thing that could help anihilate them Luchs II and AA Halftrack
What about Ostheer counters? OKW do have strong counters to 2v2 USF Riflespam, the Ostheer are not so lucky.
14 Jan 2015, 23:15 PM
#8
Posts: 229
What about Ostheer counters? OKW do have strong counters to 2v2 USF Riflespam, the Ostheer are not so lucky.
Ostheer have an awesome mortar, LMG 42, Ostwind, Stug E, Tiger, Brummbär, Panzerwerfer, Stuka strafe, Flame HT...
AKA Domestic Dude
15 Jan 2015, 13:06 PM
#9
Posts: 327
Ostheer have an awesome mortar, LMG 42, Ostwind, Stug E, Tiger, Brummbär, Panzerwerfer, Stuka strafe, Flame HT...
Let's not get carried away by the game of I-can-make-a-list. The issue is clearly connected to the early game - if I manage to drag it through to late game the problem is not present at all. So the Tiger, Brummbaer and Panzerwerfer drop from that list right away. Of the remaining units:
Mortar: this means (1) You have even less squads to cover your HMGs/mortars (2) Have even less units to hold under fire while your mortar shells land on Rifles (and even that provided the Rifle player is dumb and just bunches up his squads without moving);
LMG 42: only works if you have constructible green cover at your disposal, which the Ostheer don't (that's why this needs to be signed);
Ostwind, Flame HT and StuG E: no chance of survival once the super-long-range Jackson hits the field; Plus the latter doesn't even belong in here, as it is doctrinal;
Stuka strafe: Again, doctrinal counters to non-doctrinal problems is never a solution.
15 Jan 2015, 13:35 PM
#10
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
Ostheer have an awesome mortar, LMG 42, Ostwind, Stug E, Tiger, Brummbär, Panzerwerfer, Stuka strafe, Flame HT...
Not sure if trolling...
Awesome mortar won't help against quickly moving blob
Ostwind is not far from Pz.IV in terms of cost and latter gives you both AT and AI unit, while both of them are negated by Jacksons
Brummbar and Pwerfer require to invest too much in teching and come too late - you will get steamrolled by USF blob by that time
Flame HT
LMG42 are good, but 4-man gren squads are not that durable
Stug E and Tiger are the only options because
- they don't requre investing in teching
- Stug comes early and Tiger is durable enough to fight Jacksons
15 Jan 2015, 15:42 PM
#11
Posts: 229
If we are strictly talking early game then jacksons isn't a problem. I am not playing at high levels but for me a mix of different AI units works wonders. 2 x MG42 to suppress. 2 x LMG Grens to keep suppression 1 x Mortar to deal serious damage. If he blobs his riflemen you should get map control with capping pios. Get a fast ostwind and a few paks to be on the safe side... Again, this is how i do it and i do have success with it if i meet an equally skilled player, but i am far from a pro. The halftrack gives you great staying power on the battlefield...
I refuse to believe that just because ost units can't compete with riflemen 1 on 1 there is nothing to be done about rifle spam.
IMO ostheer does not lack good AI units, they are just not as obvious or cheesy as other factions (*couh* obers).
I refuse to believe that just because ost units can't compete with riflemen 1 on 1 there is nothing to be done about rifle spam.
IMO ostheer does not lack good AI units, they are just not as obvious or cheesy as other factions (*couh* obers).
AKA Domestic Dude
15 Jan 2015, 23:32 PM
#12
Posts: 327
If we are strictly talking early game then jacksons isn't a problem.Get a fast ostwind and a few paks to be on the safe side...
The problem is, Rifle blobs annihilate Ostheer infantry and support weapons, enabling the USF to control the resources and thus have a quick transition to the Jacksons which then protect the blob from any armor-based solution. Paks don't have the range to effectively counter the Jacksons without becoming extremely vulnerable to the Rifle blobs.
2 x MG42 to suppress. 2 x LMG Grens to keep suppression 1 x Mortar to deal serious damage
The HMG42s are very weak in the current meta, and you can see threads on this across this forum. They get annihilated by the Rifle blobs before making any effect, especially if you consider smoke grenades the Rifles have access to. And I already covered the vulnerability/inefficiency of the Grens and mortars against the Rifles.
16 Jan 2015, 08:36 AM
#13
Posts: 229
words
I can see we talk about different things. I propose combined arms to be the way to go while you compare the efficiency of unit by unit. There are a lot of casts on youtube with skilled wehr-players playing and winning against americans. It can be done, it's just a bit more micro-intensive and tricky.
I don't say wehr don't need some tweaking to be on par with the other factions, i'm just saying that you can make what you have work to some extent if you don't play versus a player that is better then you, if so you are running the risk of getting stomped.
Edit: Since the thread is about 2 vs 2 combined arms makes even more sence. OKW and Wehr together have all the means necessary to take on whatever comes at them.
AKA Domestic Dude
16 Jan 2015, 17:54 PM
#14
Posts: 327
I propose combined arms to be the way to go while you compare the efficiency of unit by unit.
I do not. My comments describe the current situation in which Rifle blobs are OP against both certain Ostheer units and their combination.
I don't say wehr don't need some tweaking to be on par with the other factions, i'm just saying that you can make what you have work
Nobody here disputed that it can be done if you're lucky/opponent is weak/etc. - but that is not a balance discussion.
16 Jan 2015, 23:45 PM
#15
Posts: 229
You have your oppinion and i have mine. I will not debate this further.
AKA Domestic Dude
29 Jan 2015, 14:55 PM
#16
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
The problem is, Rifle blobs annihilate Ostheer infantry and support weapons, enabling the USF to control the resources and thus have a quick transition to the Jacksons which then protect the blob from any armor-based solution. Paks don't have the range to effectively counter the Jacksons without becoming extremely vulnerable to the Rifle blobs.
The HMG42s are very weak in the current meta, and you can see threads on this across this forum. +They get annihilated by the Rifle blobs before making any effect, especially if you consider smoke grenades the Rifles have access to. And I already covered the vulnerability/inefficiency of the Grens and mortars against the Rifles.
In example above
2 grens
2 LMG42
2 HMG42
1 Mortar
= 1200MP + 120 MU
+ T1 + BP1
which is roughly equal to
4 Rifleman
2 BARs
1 LT
= 1320 MP + 100 MU
+ BAR unlock + grenade unlock
I'm not sure in results of this firefight.
I'd say it highly depends on:
1) HMG repositioning after USF use their smoke grenades
2) grenade useage and ostheer have better chances to hit with riflenades because:
- they detonate upon imact
- suppresed units can't change position quick enough
2 grens won't stand for long enough, so in given scenario I'd switch Mortar for another gren squad.
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