A specialist heavy tank should have made it easier to make it to the next series of hedgerows instead of being knocked out of action like many Sherman were attacking pak 40s head om.
It was the terrain of the Bocage country that kept the Americans from breaking through in Normandy. Having a specialist heavy tank wouldn't have mattered when it would have just ran into the next series of hedgerows. Once the Americans hit open country where it could utilize its numerically superior armor and air power, it was a straight shot to the Rhine. Only thing stopping them from going further was that they outrun their supply.
Fury Movie! Tiger vs Sherman
10 Dec 2014, 05:59 AM
#121
Posts: 2
Coffee tastes better if the latrines are dug downstream from an encampment.
- US Army Field Regulations, 1861
- US Army Field Regulations, 1861
10 Dec 2014, 21:42 PM
#122
Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1
That's why I believe a Tiger commander wouldn't do such a mistake, plus the Fury seemed to have double a Kingtiger's armor in that movie!! lol too unrealistic anyways!
That's 1944 dude. Most of those guys were under-trained. Newbie tank crew, Newbie pilots, young soldiers etc etc.
But I wished there were some P4s and Stugs in the movie. E8 could easily kill them and that could make a good scene. The final scene was "American Heroes Kill All Da Enemies" kinda stuff. Those SS guys had Panzerfaust since the beginning why the hell did they fight till night and there officer was like "Ok now that we have lost 100 men let's finally use those fausts". Last scene was disappointing, but the movie was good in general.
12 Dec 2014, 20:24 PM
#123
Posts: 204
Permanently Banned
That's 1944 dude. Most of those guys were under-trained. Newbie tank crew, Newbie pilots, young soldiers etc etc.
But I wished there were some P4s and Stugs in the movie. E8 could easily kill them and that could make a good scene. The final scene was "American Heroes Kill All Da Enemies" kinda stuff. Those SS guys had Panzerfaust since the beginning why the hell did they fight till night and there officer was like "Ok now that we have lost 100 men let's finally use those fausts". Last scene was disappointing, but the movie was good in general.
I don't think the Germans would give a under trained tank crew a tiger, they would give those to more experienced crews. After the ardennes, yes then there were even fewer well trained German tank crews, but in Normandy, the remaining elite units got the tigers, not some under trained crew.
13 Dec 2014, 11:07 AM
#124
Posts: 1702
That's a rather optimistic graph
http://books.google.de/books?id=lQoWAAAAQBAJ&lpg=PA12&ots=oV8IDsX0sr&dq=sherman%2076mm%20penetration%20vs%20tiger&pg=PA12#v=onepage&q=sherman%2076mm%20penetration%20vs%20tiger&f=false
http://books.google.de/books?id=SOTDzoncMroC&lpg=PA118&ots=xfJ31-27GH&dq=sherman%2076mm%20penetration%20tiger&pg=PA118#v=onepage&q=sherman%2076mm%20penetration%20tiger&f=false
... and so on.
Majority of all sources pretty much sum it up in a rather similar way: "get behind it, or don't even try".
Hmm, very interesting. Because the same author (Zaloga) says that the t-34/85 with APCR rounds was able to penetrate the panthers hull armor, which was MUCH thicker than the tigers armor, and considering that the t-34/85s gun was slightly worse than the 76mm M1 in terms of armor penetration, it is quite strange that it was not able to penetrate tigers reliably.
And the film is set in 1945, HVAP rounds were pretty rare,yes, but a tiger was also VERY rare in 1945.
I think this comes from the fact that tiger crews were always instructed to have their tanks facing the enemy tank at a 45 degree angle to maximize armor effectiveness. That is probaly where the 400m or even lower figure comes from. Not suprising, since a t-34/85 can penetrate a tiger I angled at 30 degrees from only 200-500 meters, while a non angled tiger it can penetrate at 1000m +.
13 Dec 2014, 11:31 AM
#125
Posts: 1702
DOUBLE POST
13 Dec 2014, 12:18 PM
#126
Posts: 559
I don't think the Germans would give a under trained tank crew a tiger, they would give those to more experienced crews. After the ardennes, yes then there were even fewer well trained German tank crews, but in Normandy, the remaining elite units got the tigers, not some under trained crew.
Good point, makes sense.
Anyway it´s still a Hollywood movie, so we have to live with scenes which can be discussed due to realtiy. Me bothers the question, what the reallife participants from WWII would have said about this thread and all these argumantation of what was real and what was not.
Unfortunately I don´t know any former tiger crew member nor a sherman or T-34 crew member I could ask about the realsim of the final scene, as we discussed, and their own experiences.
The fact is that every participant must have been scared to death in combat no matter if you´re sitting in a trench or in a tin of steal called tank.
13 Dec 2014, 14:22 PM
#127
Posts: 978
If you believe German veterans, the most significant weakness of Soviet tanks was that they couldn´t see and hit shit.
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