Hit the dirt!
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22 Apr 2013, 15:22 PM
#21
Posts: 1620 | Subs: 2
Although as long as they hit the dirt before the HMG opens up, they won't get suppressed.
Signature by Ginnungagap
22 Apr 2013, 15:26 PM
#22
Posts: 337
Yeah HTD right now seems like the no-brainer to choose in 1v1s, haven't really come up with any form of effective counter.
If they make you spend 5 mu on Oorah! why not charge mu for HTD aswell perhaps, even with that though it would most likely require some form of stat tweak.
If they make you spend 5 mu on Oorah! why not charge mu for HTD aswell perhaps, even with that though it would most likely require some form of stat tweak.
22 Apr 2013, 15:59 PM
#23
Posts: 1164
this is from the first version of beta, so no guarantee that it is still true:
hit the dirt (apart from all the fancy stuff it does to the conscripts that you can actually see, like them all going prone and stuff) applies a multiplicative 0.5 received accuracy modifier and a multiplicative 0 received suppression modifier.
since, iirc the toggle timer was 10 seconds, you could probably just leave the combat area once the conscripts hit the dirt, forcing them to remain stationary for the remainder of the cooldown before they can move again (and another 10 seconds before they can hit the dirt again).
concerning the values themselves, i do not want to get into a balance debate when i have barely played the game enough to know all the units. just remember that changing those modifier values is a piece of cake, while changing the UI and all the other stuff that needs work is not just a matter of changing a few values (at least for the most part)
hit the dirt (apart from all the fancy stuff it does to the conscripts that you can actually see, like them all going prone and stuff) applies a multiplicative 0.5 received accuracy modifier and a multiplicative 0 received suppression modifier.
since, iirc the toggle timer was 10 seconds, you could probably just leave the combat area once the conscripts hit the dirt, forcing them to remain stationary for the remainder of the cooldown before they can move again (and another 10 seconds before they can hit the dirt again).
concerning the values themselves, i do not want to get into a balance debate when i have barely played the game enough to know all the units. just remember that changing those modifier values is a piece of cake, while changing the UI and all the other stuff that needs work is not just a matter of changing a few values (at least for the most part)
22 Apr 2013, 16:03 PM
#24
15 
Posts: 1708 | Subs: 2
You can't cap or stop caps when Red Pinned or Retreating. If they changed hit the dirt to also do that I think it would be an interesting change.
22 Apr 2013, 16:17 PM
#25
Posts: 1620 | Subs: 2
You can't cap or stop caps when Red Pinned or Retreating. If they changed hit the dirt to also do that I think it would be an interesting change.
I think this plus a 5 munitions cost or something would be good steps towards balancing it. They would at least be something to try out. Maybe also Relic could remove suppression immunity and change it to suppression resistance. It would be harder to suppress a squad that has Hit the Dirt! but not impossible.
Making it impossible for squads to stop the cap or decap would make Hit the Dirt! something that you don't always want to turn on in combat, because even if you win the fight your opponent might get the cap/decap that they wanted and then just move away or retreat without getting chased. Giving it a munitions cost would make it a little more fair for the Ostheer which has to dump munis into PGren grenades against Hit the Dirt! squads if they want to do damage, it would also give players another reason not to pop the ability all the time. Changing suppression immunity to suppression resistance would make it less of a "lol fuck your MG" ability and more of a "well, now I can maybe get some damage in on your machinegun before you suppress me."
Signature by Ginnungagap
22 Apr 2013, 16:23 PM
#26
Posts: 150
The solution proposed to nerf hit the dirt that I prefer was proposed by dullahan on the sega forum :
reduce line of sight when hit the dirt is used, blocking their sight with every piece of cover, even the smallest one.
reduce line of sight when hit the dirt is used, blocking their sight with every piece of cover, even the smallest one.
22 Apr 2013, 16:27 PM
#27
Posts: 1620 | Subs: 2
The game engine would have to be set up to support that, and one thing I'm worried about is that it's not clear what would block sight in terms of what the player sees. Do bushes block sight? Wooden fences (that people can obviously see through)? In a game like Men of War when you're always rotating the camera and playing at a bit of a slower pace it's fine for stuff to realistically block sight, but in CoH 2 it's tough to tell what will or will not block sight and when, and even if Relic does have the code for having small things block sight, I'm not sure it would be intuitive to predict when you're playing the game.
Signature by Ginnungagap
22 Apr 2013, 16:29 PM
#28
Posts: 82
The solution proposed to nerf hit the dirt that I prefer was proposed by dullahan on the sega forum :
reduce line of sight when hit the dirt is used, blocking their sight with every piece of cover, even the smallest one.
I think this is a very interesting fix to HTD. This with the inability to cap/decap when active would be a good direction to go. I understand the balance reasoning for wanting HTD to use munitions, but it kind of doesn't make sense... like why would you require munitions to fall down.
22 Apr 2013, 16:32 PM
#29
Posts: 150
like why would you require munitions to fall down.
why do you need ammo to scream "Oooorah !!" and suddenly run faster =p
oh, maybe they use ammos as suppositories, and the pain makes them run faster ^^
22 Apr 2013, 17:24 PM
#30
Posts: 82
why do you need ammo to scream "Oooorah !!" and suddenly run faster =p
Haha yeah I realized this fallacy as I was typing and was too lazy to correct myself.
22 Apr 2013, 17:33 PM
#31
Posts: 1620 | Subs: 2
why do you need ammo to scream "Oooorah !!" and suddenly run faster =p
oh, maybe they use ammos as suppositories, and the pain makes them run faster ^^
oh god
Signature by Ginnungagap
23 Apr 2013, 01:21 AM
#32
Posts: 104
Keep in mind that the doctrine has incredibly limited lategame potential, and any hard nerf to HTD could make the doctrine useless. If Conscripts were too weak, Germans could camp a fuel and hold out early, then roll over your units with a Tiger. Granted if you can take a commanding lead early, the lategame won't be too hard since you'll have the resources for call-ins and tanks, which is why the doctrine has been so powerful in 1v1 where you really just want to stop your opponent from ever taking the fuels.
I like the idea of a 5 muni cost for HTD, although I typically feel that I have a large enough munitions income as Soviets to use Oorah! and Molotovs whenever I please, and an extra 5 munitions wouldn't cause me much harm. Maybe a few less AT Grenades, but there are other ways to counter/cripple vehicles if necessary.
I like the idea of a 5 muni cost for HTD, although I typically feel that I have a large enough munitions income as Soviets to use Oorah! and Molotovs whenever I please, and an extra 5 munitions wouldn't cause me much harm. Maybe a few less AT Grenades, but there are other ways to counter/cripple vehicles if necessary.
28 Apr 2013, 21:26 PM
#33
Posts: 3
Btw. is anybody ever using any other commander for soviets?
Rifles and Hit the Dirt on 1 plus the conscripts weapon upgrade on 2. So you got better anti-infantry plus better anti-tank infantry quite early in the game.
@Inverse: I already had insane players regularly running away with conscripts once they saw the beginning of the rifle grenade animation. I wonder how the hell they keep aware of this while doing all the other stuff but it is possible. But rare of course so you are probably right.
Naturally. That commander is probably the last on the list to be used after the AT (since the 85mm gun for the T34 isn't more than a cosmetic upgrade it goes down on the list).
I believe the ability is fine as it is. If you upgrade you conscript with SMGs, using hit the dirt might bring down your effectiveness if fighting at long range.
29 Apr 2013, 00:17 AM
#34
Posts: 6
I find that a lot of people make the mistake of sticking to close range when fighting my conscript who hit the dirt. Conscript with SGMs and hit the dirt get murdered by Grens with LMGs if at decent range, and it can be hard to toggle off and on again due to the ability cooldown.
So maybe a slightly longer cooldown between the use of HTD might help staying away from the conscripts?
On a second note, I was personnaly under the impression that Conscripts who hit the dirt were much more vulnerable to flame, mortars and nades... Just as if they were in cover. Isn't that correct?
So maybe a slightly longer cooldown between the use of HTD might help staying away from the conscripts?
On a second note, I was personnaly under the impression that Conscripts who hit the dirt were much more vulnerable to flame, mortars and nades... Just as if they were in cover. Isn't that correct?
29 Apr 2013, 01:09 AM
#35
Posts: 180
why do you need ammo to scream "Oooorah !!" and suddenly run faster =p
oh, maybe they use ammos as suppositories, and the pain makes them run faster ^^
And now we use ammo to shoot them in their knees so that they have to go prone for a while
29 Apr 2013, 04:31 AM
#36
Posts: 34
Just getting out of range of the conscripts is rarely an option. If you have grens in cover guarding a capture point, conscripts can just oorah run up and HTD in the capture zone. Moving from your cover A.) exposes you to more fire until you get out of range. and B.) lets the conscripts cap the point / take the cover.
I think the only thing that makes them more vulnerable is they cannot move for a few seconds after you activate the ability. So it is easier to hit them with nades or mortar, but they do not take any extra damage.
On a second note, I was personnaly under the impression that Conscripts who hit the dirt were much more vulnerable to flame, mortars and nades... Just as if they were in cover. Isn't that correct?
I think the only thing that makes them more vulnerable is they cannot move for a few seconds after you activate the ability. So it is easier to hit them with nades or mortar, but they do not take any extra damage.
1 May 2013, 16:48 PM
#37
Posts: 642
I think HTD is fine. People just need to work around it. A bundled grenade makes quick work of Conscripts during HTD.
If they are still too powerful for people, then remove any abilities the conscripts have while in this mode (mollies, AT, oorah, vet, etc). You gain some, you lose some.
If they are still too powerful for people, then remove any abilities the conscripts have while in this mode (mollies, AT, oorah, vet, etc). You gain some, you lose some.
1 May 2013, 17:08 PM
#38
Posts: 74
Maybe making them unable to cap when the ability is active would help solve the bum rush into a capping zone where it immobility doesn't really matter
3 May 2013, 00:10 AM
#39
Posts: 371
This doctrine is not a no brainer choice by any means whatsoever for 3 reasons .
1 it can get countered by all the support weapons costeffectively so its vulnerable to heavy t1 play
2 if you dont take a very big advantage in the early game , enough to guarantee you 2 t34s and a su85 , or a su85 + su76 spam your kinda screwd .
3 Grens scale better than cons with vet so the advatage will gradually shift towards the krauts as the game progresses
The only reason its so good is because most people havnt learned their units well enough yet while that kind of play resembles vcoh's bared rifles heavy flanking play so people playing in that style know what they are doing a lot better than their opponents .
1 it can get countered by all the support weapons costeffectively so its vulnerable to heavy t1 play
2 if you dont take a very big advantage in the early game , enough to guarantee you 2 t34s and a su85 , or a su85 + su76 spam your kinda screwd .
3 Grens scale better than cons with vet so the advatage will gradually shift towards the krauts as the game progresses
The only reason its so good is because most people havnt learned their units well enough yet while that kind of play resembles vcoh's bared rifles heavy flanking play so people playing in that style know what they are doing a lot better than their opponents .
Please relic and sega just take it easy with the dlc ...
21 Feb 2019, 10:44 AM
#40
Posts: 2272 | Subs: 1
I think hit the dirt is fine now and doesn't need that much change
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