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russian armor

Thoughts on the Recent Jagdtiger and ISU Changes?

21 Nov 2014, 18:36 PM
#41
avatar of Rupert

Posts: 186

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Nov 2014, 18:16 PMNinjaWJ


True. Don't nerf the ISU anymore please, it is th counter to blobs :D:megusta:

But what do u think the reaction would be from players? "OMG WTF MY TIGER/PANTHER GOT PWNED SO!!! NERF NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"



Yes, we need a WTFPWNEVERYTHING call-in. It's the only way we can deal whatever enemy throws at us :GG:
23 Nov 2014, 10:53 AM
#42
avatar of Gneckes

Posts: 196

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Nov 2014, 18:36 PMRupert



Yes, we need a WTFPWNEVERYTHING call-in. It's the only way we can deal whatever enemy throws at us :GG:


Sounds like great balance.
:megusta:
24 Nov 2014, 06:04 AM
#43
avatar of somenbjorn

Posts: 923

Wait a minute. So I've always thought the problem was the fact that it had superior AT and AI.
Apparently the major problem people have with it is not the AT, since people seem 'open' to the idea of replacing it with a dedicated TD, but the AI.

I'm a getting warm here? I mean its TD capabilities are not that great atm, for the price if using it as dedicated AT you are better of with SU-85s so I gather from that and posts here and other places that the HE shells is really what gets people going.

So well what do the other side say? Is the HE shells too good at wiping infantry? Or is it a needed counter for late-game OKW/OST infantry? How would this be fixed?


I mean just a nerf means we see less of the ISU and more of the IS-2 and Katyushas. It fills a perceived need in the Soviets build, counter to lategame infantry using armor. So will a nerf 'fix' anything or will it just change the face of what fights lategame german infantry? (And yes armor to some extent)
24 Nov 2014, 07:01 AM
#44
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

It is hard to use cons and guards (even when vetted) to fight vetted Axis infantry. The only infantry to push back Axis troops is shocks. The easiest solution is to call-in the ISU to do the dirty work. It is rather meh n the AT department, but it is heavist vehicle the SOviets can field. The SU85 is way too flimsy and lacks the penetration to fight against heavier Axis vehicles like the KT and JT.

ISU as an AT is balanced versus Ostheer. The Ostheer can field an Elefant to counter it. With the arrival of the KT and Jagdtiger, it is almost necessary to have the ISU in your back pocket because that is the heaviest vehicle you can get
24 Nov 2014, 08:00 AM
#45
avatar of bämbabäm

Posts: 246

Wait a minute. So I've always thought the problem was the fact that it had superior AT and AI.
Apparently the major problem people have with it is not the AT, since people seem 'open' to the idea of replacing it with a dedicated TD, but the AI.

I'm a getting warm here? I mean its TD capabilities are not that great atm, for the price if using it as dedicated AT you are better of with SU-85s so I gather from that and posts here and other places that the HE shells is really what gets people going.


Haha you obviously don't seem to understand what people are saying... :facepalm: The problem is that it has super AT and AI: its AI is good enough to wipe infantry from 70 range but still hardcounter every tank except Ele/JT.
What would you say if the Ele/JT had similar AI capabilities? JT already is more expensive and less mobile, and Ele cost roughly the same but :snfCHVGame:
24 Nov 2014, 08:19 AM
#46
avatar of somenbjorn

Posts: 923



Haha you obviously don't seem to understand what people are saying... :facepalm: The problem is that it has super AT and AI: its AI is good enough to wipe infantry from 70 range but still hardcounter every tank except Ele/JT.
What would you say if the Ele/JT had similar AI capabilities? JT already is more expensive and less mobile, and Ele cost roughly the same but :snfCHVGame:


Which is what I thought at first aswell. But it seems that most people would still have a problem if the AT was removed, the AT isn't godlike. If the AI ability remained the same but the AT as removed, would there still be an issue with this unit?

Reading between the lines of posts in this and other threads on coh2.org aswell as replies on the official forums it seems people would still not like the squadwiping potential of the ISU even if the AT was removed. You can still cover it with SU-85s, Zis guns and if teamgames, Jacksons.
24 Nov 2014, 17:24 PM
#47
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070



Which is what I thought at first aswell. But it seems that most people would still have a problem if the AT was removed, the AT isn't godlike. If the AI ability remained the same but the AT as removed, would there still be an issue with this unit?

Reading between the lines of posts in this and other threads on coh2.org aswell as replies on the official forums it seems people would still not like the squadwiping potential of the ISU even if the AT was removed. You can still cover it with SU-85s, Zis guns and if teamgames, Jacksons.


Then im sure there would be people (LIKE ME!) who would then complain that Soviets have nothing could to handle KT, JT, Tiger Ace,etc..
24 Nov 2014, 18:18 PM
#48
avatar of SUCKmyCLOCK

Posts: 207

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Nov 2014, 17:24 PMNinjaWJ


Then im sure there would be people (LIKE ME!) who would then complain that Soviets have nothing could to handle KT, JT, Tiger Ace,etc..


Really? ISU is the only answer that you have to Axis armor? If so then you are screwed man........

Ever hear of mines? Zis? T85s? IS2s??? the kings of AT SU85s????? The best JT KT TA counter in the game B4s????????? (which has ZERO counters with OKW and rare counters with OST...............

You honestly never use any of these units as Russian?



24 Nov 2014, 19:05 PM
#49
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070



Really? ISU is the only answer that you have to Axis armor? If so then you are screwed man........

Ever hear of mines? Zis? T85s? IS2s??? the kings of AT SU85s????? The best JT KT TA counter in the game B4s????????? (which has ZERO counters with OKW and rare counters with OST...............

You honestly never use any of these units as Russian?



I use them all, but ISU has the best deterrence factor
24 Nov 2014, 21:00 PM
#50
avatar of Arclyte

Posts: 692



Haha you obviously don't seem to understand what people are saying... :facepalm: The problem is that it has super AT and AI: its AI is good enough to wipe infantry from 70 range but still hardcounter every tank except Ele/JT.
What would you say if the Ele/JT had similar AI capabilities? JT already is more expensive and less mobile, and Ele cost roughly the same but :snfCHVGame:


FFS, why do people insist on comparing 2 units in a vacuum?

ISU has AI capabilities when the Elefant/JT do not because Axis infantry is superior to Soviet inf in every way. Cons are a joke, penals are never built and guard rifles are mediocre at best. Shocks are the only infantry unit that are useful, and there is only one doctrine with both ISU and Shocks
24 Nov 2014, 21:40 PM
#51
25 Nov 2014, 13:59 PM
#52
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2



Which is what I thought at first aswell. But it seems that most people would still have a problem if the AT was removed, the AT isn't godlike. If the AI ability remained the same but the AT as removed, would there still be an issue with this unit?

Reading between the lines of posts in this and other threads on coh2.org aswell as replies on the official forums it seems people would still not like the squadwiping potential of the ISU even if the AT was removed. You can still cover it with SU-85s, Zis guns and if teamgames, Jacksons.


i think they will still complain even if at becomes shite for a good reason. i believe all these gripes are about ISU squad wipiing PLUS its pretty nice at ability.

switching ammo is nice but let's say you are playing 2v2 on semois summer or other enclosed maps. it would be near impossible to flank the isu and catch it out of position. so i think switching ammo doesn't really nerf this unit very much. not enough anyway.
25 Nov 2014, 17:52 PM
#53
avatar of Theodosios
Admin Red  Badge

Posts: 1554 | Subs: 7

Due to the recent changes to ISU you can finally beat it with a combined arms force. I haven't seen any soviet player using ISU since its nerf though (except me :foreveralone: ).

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