Thoughts on the Recent Jagdtiger and ISU Changes?

While the Jagdtiger lost his main asset, the ISU only got a slight nerf.
It's still a anti-everything unit that has only one reload circle between it's shell changes.

The nerf on ISU-152 hurted it's versatility a lot. It need more support from inf. then ever.

Jad is almost a complete waste now, IMHO. Looking at it from a bang for your buck perspective - you get much more out of the ISU-152 than the Jad. Its wiping fully vetted/full health squads regularly. In order for the jad to be effective it will need a range increase. Its becoming increasingly harder to win against allies in 1v1/2v2. The meta call ins for soviets is raping axis. Pretty easy to call in 2 t'34 85s and mark target and you can basically wreck any tank. People always say you can't make a mistake as allies - I think this pendulum has officially moved into the allies favor, especially if we are talking OKW - you can't expect Pumas or Jadpanzer, or even a panther to be able to take on 2 t34/85 w/mark target, couple this with a USF players using p47s and it won't matter what you do.

Also wanted to add the difficulty to kill these units. You can assault a Jad with armor- infantry - support weapons. You cannot use combined arms to kill a ISU-152 - it requires you to build a Jad/Elephant or completely clear the field before you make an assault with armor.

Also wanted to add the difficulty to kill these units. You can assault a Jad with armor- infantry - support weapons. You cannot use combined arms to kill a ISU-152 - it requires you to build a Jad/Elephant or completely clear the field before you make an assault with armor.

Assault Jadg with tanks, inf and support weapon at once? Damn... that must by really high APM



But nevermind.

It does not require to build JT/Ele since last change. If you see HE shells, go hard with Blitz on Panther/PzIV. ISU will probably switch to AP and then attack with volks/pzgrens.

On the other hand, JT + 2 Volks squads with schrecks can be hard do deal with. All you need to do is place JT in nice, open area and secure flanks with mines/paks/volks, and since Allies dont have AT infantry you can give a fuck about infantry attacking JT yet still you will have Obers, Panzerfuss or even T4 near.

Assault Jadg with tanks, inf and support weapon at once? Damn... that must by really high APM

Umm yes, its called combined arms.


But nevermind.

It does not require to build JT/Ele since last change. If you see HE shells, go hard with Blitz on Panther/PzIV. ISU will probably switch to AP and then attack with volks/pzgrens.


1 AT nade and your blitz is over, and so is your armor.


On the other hand, JT + 2 Volks squads with schrecks can be hard do deal with. All you need to do is place JT in nice, open area and secure flanks with mines/paks/volks, and since Allies dont have AT infantry you can give a fuck about infantry attacking JT yet still you will have Obers, Panzerfuss or even T4 near.


Allies don't have at infantry? This is news to me.

But more importantly - if you actually believe what you are spewing, would you be willing to trade your ISU-152 for a Jad?

The ISU-152 is simply too accurate and too lethal to infantry, I think it is performing fine against armor.
The patch is a step in the right direction but the underlying problem is still there.

The Jad needed to have a blockable shot, now it does, besides that I never noticed that the Jad was over performing.

Gosh we are making the ISU sound like a walking stuka.

Gosh we are making the ISU sound like a walking stuka.

I don't understand why people always have to mention the Walking Stuka. It has a 2 min cooldown and is quite easy to dodge. It barely wipes anything apart from weapon crews.

http://community.companyofheroes.com/forum/company-of-heroes-2/coh-2-balance-feedback/125443-the-new-isu

^I pretty much agree to this post on the official CoH2 forums. Nothing more to say.

I don't understand why people always have to mention the Walking Stuka. It has a 2 min cooldown and is quite easy to dodge. It barely wipes anything apart from weapon crews.

http://community.companyofheroes.com/forum/company-of-heroes-2/coh-2-balance-feedback/125443-the-new-isu

^I pretty much agree to this post on the official CoH2 forums. Nothing more to say.

Also the topic is ISU/Jad. This is just a mechanism to divert the conversation. Next post will be about the kubel.

I dont think making the shot avoidable will make the jagdtiger useless. seems more like an exaggeration. It is still the most heavily armored and armed tank with the best sight in the game.

I think Relic was going towards the "applying more micro" sort of deal to nerf these units. Remember when they added the manual track and shoot changes in the live beta? I am pretty sure this is a continuation of that intention. ISU will require more babysitting and awareness in regards to switching shell types. You can no longer camp an isu or a-move it in the enemy's direction without repercussion. Additionally, the Jagdtiger can no longer camp behind obstacles and snipe your tanks; it was far too safe

But more importantly - if you actually believe what you are spewing, would you be willing to trade your ISU-152 for a Jad?

Honestly? Give Guards little long-rage DPS boost and I would change ISU for JT any day.


"Umm yes, its called combined arms. "

Yes but operating with Cons for AT nade, 2 ZiS and 2 t34/85 which are trying to flank and make it stuck at the same is really, really hard especially because you won't face just JT. There will be Obers, Volks and other stuff.


"Allies don't have at infantry? This is news to me."

Obers deny almost all allied infantry.


"1 AT nade and your blitz is over, and so is your armor."

That's why you can use Ele or Jadg.
Soviets have to for call ins in almost every game just to have something. Axis don't have to but it seems fair that they should when facing ISU, yet still they can kill it in other ways.
On the other hand, Soviets stock units can't kill JT unless it's standing alone without any support and you have 4 t34/76

Honestly? Give Guards little long-rage DPS boost and I would change ISU for JT any day.

Lets make it happen people.

Lets make it happen people.

but this should come with blitzkrieg change so tank will accelerate faster without incerasing speed because Panther with speed over 9 can deny any tank destroyer.

My vet 2 walking stuka with my cooldown bulletins makes it cooldown 45% faster. Just saying...

but this should come with blitzkrieg change so tank will accelerate faster without incerasing speed because Panther with speed over 9 can deny any tank destroyer.

Ok, so will trade ISU152 for jad and blitz for mark target ability. Sounds good to me.

Jad = Elite AT
ISU= Elite AI, AT and even AA with its .50cal shooting recons out of the sky no prob bob. Costs less than Jad.

Ok, so will trade ISU152 for jad and blitz for mark target ability. Sounds good to me.

Jad = Elite AT
ISU= Elite AI, AT and even AA with its .50cal shooting recons out of the sky no prob bob. Costs less than Jad.

You forgot about the Elite armor on ISU.

But more importantly - if you actually believe what you are spewing, would you be willing to trade your ISU-152 for a Jad?

ehhh Soviets kinda lack the hard AT. The ISU performs okay for anti-tank duties, but is great versus those pesky obersoldaten and Axis blobs. I am pretty sure the Jagdtiger would be considered OP in Soviet hands .

Considering Axis AI and AT and tanks are better than Allied counterparts.. JT on the Allies side could make it more balanced

Before the changes I was afraid to pick an ISU doc when I saw he went for JT doc, but not anymore.

JT on the Allies side could make it more balanced

If they switched JT with ISU, balace might even get worse. Axis players would simply rush it with Schrecks, as the JT can't defend itself against infantry and one-shot squads, while the german ISU would take out what's in the way of the Schreck blob

If they switched JT with ISU, balace might even get worse. Axis players would simply rush it with Schrecks, as the JT can't defend itself against infantry and one-shot squads, while the german ISU would take out what's in the way of the Schreck blob

True. Don't nerf the ISU anymore please, it is th counter to blobs

But what do u think the reaction would be from players? "OMG WTF MY TIGER/PANTHER GOT PWNED SO!!! NERF NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"