Mixed Axis vs Double Soviet Guidance Required

Hi,

Me and my AT friend have been having some difficulties vs double soviets. We seem to find they generally go for a couple of strategies which are either.

1) Maxims and Cons into Guards and Shocks, Zis for AT and stall until ISU-152's or T34/85's

My question is as mixed Axis, how do we beat it when it gets to late game and they have not spent ANY of their fuel on teching and have just saved everything for ISU-152's. Once they come out all my inf (usually 3-4 Grens and one or two PGrens with shrek) are useless. As the ISU one shots squads far too often. In a game we played last night they fielded 6 ISU-152's all at once, and fuel control was pretty much even. We had Panthers, but they just weren't enough.

Is the only way to beat this strat with Elephant? Or Jagdtiger? What are some ways to beat them early? What doctrines are best vs this strategy.

Well first, you didn't say what armies you play. Is it dual ostheer? Is it ostheer + okw? Is it dual okw?

Soviets can usualy lock the frontline with maxim spam + all infantry types and mortars (prefeably 120) + several zis and even su-85s. If they play as a team, this strat is even more dangerous because it can be put in place realy well. Currently dual soviets are the best combo Allies can get.

Well, first you have to break that frontline of ZIS maxim and mortars. The best tool for that is the wurframen. As ostheer you have the mortar ht and recentlyeven the common mortars which are currently verry good. They want a positional game? Give them a a positional game, but with better tools. It's more easy than trying to break the frontline with head-ons or flank attacks. For that you need perfect micro and coordination while success is not assured.

As OKW, if you see that, don't chose your doc to early. You may need a Jagdtiger later, if they have ISU doctrines at loadout. If T34/85's you can reply with panthers but if you manage to build KT it's 60% a won game.
Tough late game armor will be delayed though (unless your partner is ostheer and works hard to give ou fuel) because for an intensive maxim+zis+mortar combo, you will need to build 2 wurframens. One will not suffise.

If ostheer, unless you use mortar hts (because your partner is responsible for that or for wurframens) those comming in 2 doctrines from which just one deserves your attention - spearhead, I would suggest Jager Armor doctrine, Elite troops doctrine. If they going on T34/85 hard, use lightning war. You will have the Tiger and the infamous Stuka ground attack which will simply eat their armor for dinner.

For what you described I guess that dual okw would be the best bet (because of wurframens) but they could quickly adapt their gameplay and try to storm you with a middle armor flood. If they do that, and you spent your fuel on wurframens, you are toasted.

Make sure you garrison important buildings before he does. That's important.

All in all it's about who outplays whom. Me and my AT partner succeded to beat this strategy by simply outplaying them in startgame with combined front and flanking attacks. But I guess that was possible just against weaker teams than us.

Hope this helped.

if they go stationary with maxim, Zis, mortars just build 2 Stukas -> easy win, bomb them to hell. There is nothing worse than camping against germans. Allies have to push, otherwise they will die to arty. im mid-late game just push out 3 -4 panthers together and you never have sorrows again...

I'd recommend doing some 2v2 as Soviets. You'll learn a lot about their weaknesses that way...

What was the map?

Generally panthers beat ISUs b/c you can exert greater map control earlier in the game with an armor advantage and then snowball into more panthers. In order to do this though, Luftwaffe supply is kinda needed as it can give the economic edge to make tier 4 viable.

I have found that getting a p4 out after your first fuel drop, then dropping 2 more times and getting out a quick panther leaves you in a good spot. Quick p4 should allow you to control the fuel and the panthers that follow will only push that edge. You shouldn't miss your infantry that bad b/c like you said it was useless later on and a tank will help you win the manpower war just as well. Paks should be unecessary early b/c you will have a fast p4 for at purposes.

OKW player can go for a Kt or a panther himself all are good options. Though i would lean on the side of Kt since it will complement the panthers nicely, but if you need more vehicles before that a panther would probably be good too. If you are really scared of 6 isus at once though a jag would make sense since they probably would only have engies as infantry

Well first, you didn't say what armies you play. Is it dual ostheer? Is it ostheer + okw? Is it dual okw?

Soviets can usualy lock the frontline with maxim spam + all infantry types and mortars (prefeably 120) + several zis and even su-85s. If they play as a team, this strat is even more dangerous because it can be put in place realy well. Currently dual soviets are the best combo Allies can get.

Well, first you have to break that frontline of ZIS maxim and mortars. The best tool for that is the wurframen. As ostheer you have the mortar ht and recentlyeven the common mortars which are currently verry good. They want a positional game? Give them a a positional game, but with better tools. It's more easy than trying to break the frontline with head-ons or flank attacks. For that you need perfect micro and coordination while success is not assured.

As OKW, if you see that, don't chose your doc to early. You may need a Jagdtiger later, if they have ISU doctrines at loadout. If T34/85's you can reply with panthers but if you manage to build KT it's 60% a won game.
Tough late game armor will be delayed though (unless your partner is ostheer and works hard to give ou fuel) because for an intensive maxim+zis+mortar combo, you will need to build 2 wurframens. One will not suffise.

If ostheer, unless you use mortar hts (because your partner is responsible for that or for wurframens) those comming in 2 doctrines from which just one deserves your attention - spearhead, I would suggest Jager Armor doctrine, Elite troops doctrine. If they going on T34/85 hard, use lightning war. You will have the Tiger and the infamous Stuka ground attack which will simply eat their armor for dinner.

For what you described I guess that dual okw would be the best bet (because of wurframens) but they could quickly adapt their gameplay and try to storm you with a middle armor flood. If they do that, and you spent your fuel on wurframens, you are toasted.

Make sure you garrison important buildings before he does. That's important.

All in all it's about who outplays whom. Me and my AT partner succeded to beat this strategy by simply outplaying them in startgame with combined front and flanking attacks. But I guess that was possible just against weaker teams than us.

Hope this helped.

Thanks for the reply. Check the title - it says Mixed Axis vs Double Soviets. Which means Ost & OKW vs Soviet & Soviet.

Usually, when me and my buddy are playing mixed axis vs. sovs, we like to each focus on different sectors of the map, then begin supporting each other mid to late. remember, as germans, you don't need to push all that hard. If you secure 1 fuel + 2 VPS, you are more or less set for the game until your late game advantages come into play. Now, into the strategies.

Usually when you fight a good soviet team, they will go into two separate strats. I will here list most of the popular soviet strategies, and good ways to beat them.

First an foremost on the list is the good ol' sniper spam + guards -> ISU/T34/85. The strength of this kind of gameplay is that it is hard to counter when because of the "combined arms" army you have. However, there are multiple solutions.
-If you have ostruppen and are knowledgeable in their use, use them. Ostrupppen combined with 1-2 grens for DPS will easily defeat this strategy early on because of the fact that guards require long range damage, wich is countered by ostruppe nd grens, while the enemy snipers will either be forced to hit your ostruppen, which are cheaply reinforced, or close in to attack your grens, allowing your other units to attack them.
-Use a luchs/ scoutcar/ puma to flank around the enemy position and hit the snipers when the enemy is least expecting it, make sure to keep a squad nearby to clear for mines.
-On maps with lots of shotblockers, lure the snipers in and hit them with a riflenade from a hidden squad. Riflenades will instagib sniper squads.
-The important thing is to kill his snipers (ending their vet) and getting out medium armor as soon as possible. A panther/ P4 will walk all over this strategy, and a panther will also hardcounter the ISU. A pak is also a good investment, but never more unless you have killed the snipers. Do not build pgrens vs. this build, they are just a manpower drain vs. snipers.

Shocks + maxim spam into IS2 is another problematic strategy for many players. shocks can do lots of damage to german infantry, and are great at exploiting the germans weaknesses at close range.
-Shocks rely on their ability to charge to do well. Getting an mg42 or 2 will greatly toughen a shocks' job, but remember to reposition when he pops a smoke grenade. Use s-mines to slow down advancing infantry, and create a killzone using mortars. The german mortar utterly destroys soviet team weapons, epecially since it is outright better in most cases than the soviet mortar. Finally, if you are having any trouble at all, or if your enemy is spamming hilariously large numbers of maxims, have your ally build a stuka to end the lives of those poor farmers.
-In terms of doctrinal play, elite troops does well because it allows you to use stun-nades up close to slow down advancing shocks. A slow shock is a dead shock. Soviet teamweapons are also hardcountered by the Mortar halftrack, Just build a munition depot and spam those incindiary rounds away!
-For the later game, medium tanks are not a must, but they definetly help vs. shocks due to the shocks' nonexistant AT capabilities. Use paks and panthers with maybe a tiger to crush the IS2 when it comes out.

Soviet HM-120mm mortar spam is also an annoying strategy to deal with on some maps (trois ponts).
-The best counter is the mortar halftrack or the stuka, use these units to hit the mortars, then pull back. Incindiary rounds make short work of his crews, and if you push after a failed enemy offensive, you can even steal one and turn it upon your enemies!

If you have any specific questions or strategies you have trouble against, just ask!

As a final reminder, remember to never build Obers/ other elite infantry when fighting sniper spam. YOu will never close to lmg range vs. a good player, and these units will only be a manpower drain on your army. (the exception being fallshimjaeger, which will murder snipers when spawned on a retreat path.