The Use of Elite Rifle and Elite Troops

The instance of these two commanders is highly regarded as unfair in the use of tournaments. On that premise I would like to discuss the strategic implantation of these commanders and their value upon the battlefield.
Many consider them OP due to the fact that no one understands them. These commanders give out exp to troops that is wider considered to be "earned". Furthermore there is the end line bigger, better tanks for each one. The issue is this, both commanders are not op and have considerable drawbacks. With elite rifle you are limited on the instant production of elite riflemen, you lack the ability to get long range infantry firearms (LMG) and your call in is harmful smoke (phosphorous). For Elite Troops, the only way to vet anything is through 80manpower and 25 fuel thus delaying techs, extra units, and when it comes to vehicles the amount needed is ridiculous just to get a vet 3 tank. The implications of going this commander is this, the begin game is based upon the prowess of the player, for vetting only comes into play in the mid game due to the sheer cost involved. The investment in the beginning is too risky when it comes to someone spamming rifles or cons. And the Tiger ace? A tank that is good, yet no better really than a KT that OKW gets naturally plus only one Tiger can be called upon the field at the cost of a German having no eco what soever......kill his units not his Tiger and he cant replace nothing. With the Easy8 the tank is good but not god like, its a USF panther that is good all around yet costs an arm and a leg to produce. So it comes into question is the Elite commanders any different than windustry? No its just a method of play that can be countered if your INTELLIGENT enough to know its weaknesses. So stop with the banning.
Luft supply is the only commander that provides an unfair advantage due to its ability to supersede the investment of a cache thus making it systematically unfair yet.........the allies also have a fuel call in commander so is it really unfair?..............

No, I wanna cry more and complain and blame everything but myself for my own loss.

If that isn't one-side thinking.

A fuel call in commander HA! You mean the one that's completely negated by OKW BASE EMPLACEMENTS!!!!!!! That being said I don't think Luft supply is really OP. I don't like the elite troops thing though, but again I wouldn't say OP since it does delay tech. Rifle company is also not amazing due to EZ8 just not being as good as heavies and lack of P47.

No, I wanna cry more and complain and blame everything but myself for my own loss.

If that isn't one-side thinking.

I gave two No options Kreatiir, one that says no and then asks to explain...thats a legit answer..No and then not saying why is nothing but crying and complaining..........

I gave two No options Kreatiir, one that says no and then asks to explain...thats a legit answer..No and then not saying why is nothing but crying and complaining..........

These rules have been explained countless times.
Also, why would a tourney organizer not allow certain commanders? Cause he doesn't like them? Cause he lost fighting against them?

Hint: The answer is no.

Kreatiir I dont wanna get into a Forum/Internet Fight about a stupid game that is no more than lines of code. You are a friend to me. This was a sincere thought because of the fact that with a new patch came new balances and new ways of playing the game.......so that being said why shouldn't things be looked at again and reevaluated for the benefit that they might not be what they once where........

Not a good player here, but had some questions while reading this.

DoomTurtle, you say that there is a drawback to elite riflemen because the cool down on the veteran rifle call-in. I don't think this quite qualifies as a drawback, because you have exactly the same capacity to call-in normal riflemen as any other US doc. In fact, since you have both a building that makes rifles and a call-in for them, you actually can get riflemen on the field faster (given the resources for it) than any other US doc.

The only drawback to the vetted rifles is the extra mp (20 right?) and that isn't much of one ... the cool down isn't a draw back, it's just a modest limit to the vet advantage that you get over other US docs.

Not saying Elite Rifle is OP, but whereas other docs (IMO) tend to offer additional variety or options, this one feels like it just gives straight up buffs.

I thought it was Soviet Industry and Elite Troops that were banned in competition?

I didn't ban anything in the SCC and rifle company was literally never even chosen. Elite troops was chosen a few times and I'm pretty sure it always resulted in a loss. I'm not sure though off the top of my head, it may have won a few times.

Not a good player here, but had some questions while reading this.

DoomTurtle, you say that there is a drawback to elite riflemen because the cool down on the veteran rifle call-in. I don't think this quite qualifies as a drawback, because you have exactly the same capacity to call-in normal riflemen as any other US doc. In fact, since you have both a building that makes rifles and a call-in for them, you actually can get riflemen on the field faster (given the resources for it) than any other US doc.

The only drawback to the vetted rifles is the extra mp (20 right?) and that isn't much of one ... the cool down isn't a draw back, it's just a modest limit to the vet advantage that you get over other US docs.

Not saying Elite Rifle is OP, but whereas other docs (IMO) tend to offer additional variety or options, this one feels like it just gives straight up buffs.

I understand what you are saying and to an extent its not a drawback in the mid late game, it is however a drawback in the early game for it only allows the player to pump out a small amount of veted rifles in comparison to the fresh rifles they can produce normally. Early game is the area of contest here for it is why tourney directors have it banned. I merely am stating that in my opinion tourney commander bans need reevaluated due to the fact that there has been many big patches since their ban and the game is a different place.
Romeo - I know you didn't ban any commanders and it seems to have worked out very well. People where not upset and to be honest even with the choice like you said it was only chosen hand full of times. I just want a revaluation of the commander bans.

rifle company isnt what it was it was on release. its pretty easy to deal with, and easy eights arent THAT scary to be honest. im more worried about regular shermans with HE rounds wiping my squads actually. theres nothing really 'op' about the commander

elite troops is a little more difficult. its early and mid game is actually extremely lackluster. 80/25 is actually really expensive, and you gain vet naturally anyways. g43s are generally worse than lmg42s. in 1v1s the tiger ace seems to be a god, but in 2v2s its definitely not as strong. in fact, elite troops is kind of bad in 2v2s because there is no contingency plan. you lose your tiger, its over. you hit an m20 mine, or any mine and you get an unlucky engine crit, you lose.

the only commander that i would really like to ban is the Counterattack since the b4 is a straight up broken unit with an absurdly low cooldown on its barrage.

@elite rifle company, why this commander has both core infantry buff and medium armor buff? I mean some commanders must have some disadvantages. If you wanna a commander to buff core infantry, that s ok for me unless you dont give the commander increased mechanized capability.. That's my point to find it OP. There are a lot commanders like that in all armies. for example; giving both ISU/IS and special infantry troops. Or giving both early-mid game unit like mortar ht and late game Tiger. It is about the way of Relic creating commanders.

Imo, it should be in this way, commanders giving

early and mid game abilities, units (has late game disadvantage)
mid and late game abilities, units (has early game disad)
only some abilities and an infantry (lacking late game unit)
only some abilities and a late game unit. (lacking early game infantry)
and this kind of combinations..

Those poll options.... It could be a little more....neutral

@elite rifle company, why this commander has both core infantry buff and medium armor buff? I mean some commanders must have some disadvantages. If you wanna a commander to buff core infantry, that s ok for me unless you dont give the commander increased mechanized capability.. That's my point to find it OP. There are a lot commanders like that in all armies. for example; giving both ISU/IS and special infantry troops. Or giving both early-mid game unit like mortar ht and late game Tiger. It is about the way of Relic creating commanders.

Imo, it should be in this way, commanders giving

early and mid game abilities, units (has late game disadvantage)
mid and late game abilities, units (has early game disad)
only some abilities and an infantry (lacking late game unit)
only some abilities and a late game unit. (lacking early game infantry)
and this kind of combinations..

Elite rifle is probably the best commander for USF because all those abilities are useful in early/mid game compared to other commanders.
Vetted rifles
Flamers
Phosphorus

And since early game is what you must conquer to win as USF, it makes this commander a really good option to succeed it.
I guess a kind of support commander giving you MG + mortar + sniper squads early game (like 1CP) would also be really strong in this meta.
Since you know that there are nothing late game that can make you reverse the balance vs ostheer or OKW, USF Commanders focusing on late abilities aren't that good enough. They are good if you already have the advantage to make the break and force your opponent to surrender. But there is nothing that can reverse a battle or simple gives you the upper hand like a Tiger/KT/JT or simply a stock unit like obers does.

The Sherman is on the same logic, if you are in a bad spot, it not going to change anything (unless your opponent is AT free), if you are already winning the game, it gives you the last punch to close the loop.
In fact you could remove it from the commander, replace it with whatever you want, it wouldn't change anything of its effectiveness.