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russian armor

Let's talk about the P-47 anti-tank Rocket Strike

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21 Oct 2014, 08:35 AM
#61
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post21 Oct 2014, 07:40 AMJohnnyB
Some of you said that you can just back-up or run with your tanks and be safe. That is not true.


Stopped reading their.. thier is a VISIBLE circle to witch u can escape from.

it DOESNT matter if the p47 can see you. if ur tanks are out side the circle it WONT fire
21 Oct 2014, 08:37 AM
#62
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779



Stopped reading their.. thier is a VISIBLE circle to witch u can escape from.

it DOESNT matter if the p47 can see you. if ur tanks are out side the circle it WONT fire


Wut circle?
21 Oct 2014, 08:39 AM
#63
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

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jump backJump back to quoted post21 Oct 2014, 08:37 AMPorygon


Wut circle?


When p47 is activated. u can see a red circle around the target area. reverse tanks out of circle. THATS HOW EZ IT IS TO AVOID THE P47.
21 Oct 2014, 08:44 AM
#64
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779

I don't see it, do I need IR Luftwaffe Defence doctrine?
21 Oct 2014, 08:45 AM
#65
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post21 Oct 2014, 08:44 AMPorygon
I don't see it, do I need IR Luftwaffe Defence doctrine?


its very hard to see. the circle is very thin, U will know it when u see it
21 Oct 2014, 10:19 AM
#66
avatar of DietBrownie

Posts: 308

The P-47 is fine. Like others said, it compensates for the US's weak late game. Plus the design of it makes sense, US dominated in air support in WW2. If anything, the USF needs more air-support abilities like B-17s if they continue to exclude heavy tanks.

As for counters, like pory said, the 251 does the job or Ostwinds if you're Wehrmacht.
21 Oct 2014, 12:05 PM
#67
avatar of CelticsREP

Posts: 151

The P-47 is fine. Like others said, it compensates for the US's weak late game.



That is in no way an excuse for the way this unit behaves. This unit either does 90-95% damage or it does barely 10-15%. If it is Over performing than you balance it. A doctrinal ability shouldnt be a factions only late game ability, that is just bad gameplay design.
21 Oct 2014, 12:06 PM
#68
avatar of atouba

Posts: 482



This is a simple answer for an issue that can far more complex.

Firstly, you are completely ignoring map design, pathing and input delay. Any other callin ability, once you see smoke you can hit retreat, or in the case of atg issue move order and you are relatively safe. If you are slow to react, then you may suffer some casualties or loose entire squads.

The problem with P-47 is mainly map design and tanks propensity to go retard and start doing 360 and getting stuck on objects. Further more depending on where you call the strike it can be possible to simply be trapped with nowhere to go. 6 Months ago a similar debate was had about sov skill plane just obliterating infantry, this is no different and its amazing that relic made same mistake...

Secondly, as ost AA can often be a roll of the dice, shooting down planes immediately or completely failing the entire game. This is why debating and balancing something like this is virtually impossible. RNG is skewing balance..

P-47 should not be left in its current state simply because USA armour needs adjustment. That is just more bad design.




+1 good post!
21 Oct 2014, 12:07 PM
#69
avatar of HS King

Posts: 331



This is a simple answer for an issue that can far more complex.

Firstly, you are completely ignoring map design, pathing and input delay. Any other callin ability, once you see smoke you can hit retreat, or in the case of atg issue move order and you are relatively safe. If you are slow to react, then you may suffer some casualties or loose entire squads.

The problem with P-47 is mainly map design and tanks propensity to go retard and start doing 360 and getting stuck on objects. Further more depending on where you call the strike it can be possible to simply be trapped with nowhere to go. 6 Months ago a similar debate was had about sov skill plane just obliterating infantry, this is no different and its amazing that relic made same mistake...

Secondly, as ost AA can often be a roll of the dice, shooting down planes immediately or completely failing the entire game. This is why debating and balancing something like this is virtually impossible. RNG is skewing balance..

P-47 should not be left in its current state simply because USA armour needs adjustment. That is just more bad design.




Perfectly put
21 Oct 2014, 12:13 PM
#70
avatar of atouba

Posts: 482

It's not fine. Just because the area is so large, even you move your tanks far away from the smoke spot, the planes still can damage your tanks. It is amazing that the area is so large.

Compared to other late game aircraft ability like OST fragmentation bombing, the p-47 is OP for large acting area.
21 Oct 2014, 12:27 PM
#71
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1



When p47 is activated. u can see a red circle around the target area. reverse tanks out of circle. THATS HOW EZ IT IS TO AVOID THE P47.


Didn't know that, I will search for "the circle" next time. Anyway, I imagine it is pretty large, sometimes you got the sensation that there is "nowhere to hide".
21 Oct 2014, 12:34 PM
#72
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 1003

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Oct 2014, 12:13 PMatouba
It's not fine. Just because the area is so large, even you move your tanks far away from the smoke spot, the planes still can damage your tanks. It is amazing that the area is so large.

Compared to other late game aircraft ability like OST fragmentation bombing, the p-47 is OP for large acting area.


Try it. More then one time you have play USF.
21 Oct 2014, 12:38 PM
#73
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

A doctrinal ability shouldnt be a factions only late game ability, that is just bad gameplay design.


Well, it will be as long as axis will have 300-525 armor units they use in every single game while USF AT gun got 140 pen up close and USF TD can be 2-3 shotted by everything and doesn't have amazing penetration.
21 Oct 2014, 12:53 PM
#74
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Oct 2014, 00:16 AMSierra



Not necessarily, the Late War Germans still had a great many defensive emplacements, like FlaK towers and FlaK defenses just about everywhere. FlaK hit aircraft a lot and air losses were pretty heavy.


and late war allies had numerical superiority, tank superiority, air superiority....HHAHAAHAHA


21 Oct 2014, 13:22 PM
#75
avatar of AvNY

Posts: 862

Historical!
/s

Seriously, if you are going to defend ANY of the German Uber units then the fact that the Wehrmacht fears US ground attack is completely historical.

Personally I think the balance and faction designs are crap. I think the myth of the German war machine and the skill of German troops is also mostly myth. The Germans benefitted from being on the defensive, which drastically skews their performance.

(In the same situations, late war and completely green US forces also performed exceedingly well.)
21 Oct 2014, 13:39 PM
#76
avatar of CelticsREP

Posts: 151

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Oct 2014, 12:38 PMKatitof


Well, it will be as long as axis will have 300-525 armor units they use in every single game while USF AT gun got 140 pen up close and USF TD can be 2-3 shotted by everything and doesn't have amazing penetration.

Yeah your right, i think the USF AT gun has needed some love forever, give it better pen, nerf the P47 slightly to be more consistent. Fixes the problem of late game armour disadvantages to a point where it should be balanced
21 Oct 2014, 13:42 PM
#77
avatar of AvNY

Posts: 862

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Oct 2014, 00:16 AMSierra



Not necessarily, the Late War Germans still had a great many defensive emplacements, like FlaK towers and FlaK defenses just about everywhere. FlaK hit aircraft a lot and air losses were pretty heavy.



Air losses declined considerably over the latter course of the war. The greatest threat to both low and high altitude aircraft was enemy aircraft, which was almost non-existent by late '44 and disappeared by '45. (There was a running joke in the Wehrmacht that went something like: "If it's camouflage it's RAF, If it's silver it's USAAF, and if it's invisible it's ours.")

Flak towers were built in cities and I don't think you can consider them very mobile. ;) Their utility at defending ground troops from ground attack is practically non-existent.

The biggest risk to a pilot from ground attack actually had more to do with how many planes attacked one target. "Tail end Charlie", the last guy of eight or sixteen, would catch the most flak. But even they often survived.
21 Oct 2014, 13:52 PM
#78
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Oct 2014, 13:42 PMAvNY



Air losses declined considerably over the latter course of the war. The greatest threat to both low and high altitude aircraft was enemy aircraft, which was almost non-existent by late '44 and disappeared by '45. (There was a running joke in the Wehrmacht that went something like: "If it's camouflage it's RAF, If it's silver it's USAAF, and if it's invisible it's ours.")

Flak towers were built in cities and I don't think you can consider them very mobile. ;) Their utility at defending ground troops from ground attack is practically non-existent.

The biggest risk to a pilot from ground attack actually had more to do with how many planes attacked one target. "Tail end Charlie", the last guy of eight or sixteen, would catch the most flak. But even they often survived.


That's why all these ostheer air raids capabilities against USF are rather unrealistic. But then, let's not forget about Mescherscmidt 262 the best fighter plane in the war. Anybody wants to deny that? :)

Photo here

21 Oct 2014, 14:34 PM
#79
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Oct 2014, 13:52 PMJohnnyB


That's why all these ostheer air raids capabilities against USF are rather unrealistic. But then, let's not forget about Mescherscmidt 262 the best fighter plane in the war. Anybody wants to deny that? :)

Photo here



Not to derail this topic, but it was really too late for these advanced tech to come out when Germany was on the defensive. I am going to cite Guy Sajer's Forgotten Soldier (although its historical accuracy is debated because it is a memoir, but its quite popular), that Germany was experiencing daylight air raids by 1945.


On topic:

I am a little shocked and annoyed that there are complaints about P47 rocket strike. Yes it does a lot of damage, but it is a doctrinal ability that costs a lot of munitions. Axis have tanks that can 3-4 shot most Allied vehicles! There is just this weird double standard going on that grinds my gears
21 Oct 2014, 14:49 PM
#80
avatar of The_Courier

Posts: 665

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Oct 2014, 08:37 AMPorygon


Wut circle?


It's hard to see, but it's there on the map. Thin red line that forms a circle, it's easier to see on winter maps. Methinks it should appear on the minimap, to make it clearer that the DO NOT ENTER radius is there. But yes, if you exit the circle, the P47 will not fire. Which means, as soon as the plane appears, pop smoke/blitz and GTFO, unless the ability was triggered close to your base.

I mean, at a whomping 240 ammo in a faction that's fairly ammo starved, it's not like it can be used every minute.
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