Soviet 1 vs 1 buildorder vs OKW

Hello, I'd appreciate any help I can get. I have been struggling against OKW a bit and realized I have no real clue as to which units I should get in which order against the OKW. I have been doing the same build order I do against Ostheer which generally goes like this:

• T1
  

• Conscript

• Conscirpt

• penal

• car

• penal

• get flamethrower when enough munition

• Guards

• T2

• HMG or ZiS depending on what I suspect

• Mortar

• another Zis or HMG
  

• T3
  

• half track
  

• t34/76
  

After this I have no real plan except trying to get 2 t34/85 out without losing too much. If I lose too many units and never get the manpower I settle for additional t34/76. But against OKW this just doesn't seems as good. If somebody can tell me what to change or just how what you usually get in which order that would be great!

Just to clarify, yes I am unskilled at this game right now. I am trying to learn how the game works better by just playing more but I think a build order would help too.

I'm no pro, but here goes.

First, that's quite a long build order. For me that indicates a rigid style of play (definitely something you grow out of after a while). Maybe that's part of the problem?

As Soviets against OKW I start with T1 as well and start with:
- Penal
- M3 Armored Car
- Sniper

The M3 really hurts them: it can take down a kubel no problem, it can cause Sturmpois to retreat, and it can destroy an overly bold supply truck (especially with infantry onboard). The trick is to keep your distance at all times and not get too cocky--it's a fragile unit. Also, roll it out as soon as you can to punish early rushes (something OKW players love to do). The only reason I don't roll it out before the Penals is because I need another sturdy infantry unit to capture.

The sniper annoys them to no end and will help you force a quicker retreat. Also needs careful micro. He's an easy target if you don't move him and good players will charge him immediately or fire a rifle grenade (instant squad wipe for a sniper).

Downsides of this approach.
- High risk
- Weak early game map control
- Delayed anti-tank capability
- Usually forces you into a commander with Guards and late game heavy armour call ins

It might be better to delay the sniper and get another infantry unit first, but this method works great against aggressive players that like to rush to your choke point or fuel with a kubel and sturmpoineer combination.

First off, thanks for the reply!
Well I am much more a Starcraft player than CoH player and what I have learned from there is that it is better to do the same thing well than to the "correct" counter poorly. This is why I try to stick to something quite similar in all games. Also I don't follow this religiously but it's more of a guide to reduce the amount of thinking I need to do ingame.

Now to your build:
You don't get any conscripts? How do you have enough infantry to keep a presence on the map then? I totally agree with M3, I always get one with penals in and it almost always turns out paying for itself. Especially against Kubelwagen. Sniper could be good but I have not yet been able to make him work, maybe this is something I should practice. But with my build I could switch second penal to sniper, then I can take care of their anti-tank weapon team from afar allowing m3 to be more aggressive. My next problem has been early armor, it seems with the way I've been playing I have to retreat much off the map if I see early armor(puma or flak) and wait til I can push with a ZiS but even then ZiS is slow and their vehicles fast so still hard to get back the map presence. How do you deal with this?

This cast may be helpful, Aimstrong breaks down his build vs OKW.

This cast may be helpful, Aimstrong breaks down his build vs OKW.

Alright! I think I will check it when I get home then!

Here is a replay vs good OKW player. Most time this strategy works pretty well. http://www.coh2.org/replay/24828/soviet-abuse

Here is a replay vs good OKW player. Most time this strategy works pretty well. http://www.coh2.org/replay/24828/soviet-abuse

Ah,will check as well!

Allright, guys, now tell me why everyone use M3A1+penals instead of M3A1+CE? CE have the same flamer, but can repair it.

Allright, guys, now tell me why everyone use M3A1+penals instead of M3A1+CE? CE have the same flamer, but can repair it.

I assume since they shoot better on the move given their rifles and can take more damage since they are more men in the squad. It seems 50% of men in squad die when car dies so then more likely squad will survive. That was my reasoning at least

Allright, guys, now tell me why everyone use M3A1+penals instead of M3A1+CE? CE have the same flamer, but can repair it.

Because Penals is a better combat unit, can be put to good use with or without the M3, at early or late game. Unlike CE you risk losing 60 muni AND the CE squad itself when the flamethrower tank blows up at random.

First off, thanks for the reply!
Well I am much more a Starcraft player than CoH player and what I have learned from there is that it is better to do the same thing well than to the "correct" counter poorly. This is why I try to stick to something quite similar in all games. Also I don't follow this religiously but it's more of a guide to reduce the amount of thinking I need to do ingame.

Now to your build:
You don't get any conscripts? How do you have enough infantry to keep a presence on the map then? I totally agree with M3, I always get one with penals in and it almost always turns out paying for itself. Especially against Kubelwagen. Sniper could be good but I have not yet been able to make him work, maybe this is something I should practice. But with my build I could switch second penal to sniper, then I can take care of their anti-tank weapon team from afar allowing m3 to be more aggressive. My next problem has been early armor, it seems with the way I've been playing I have to retreat much off the map if I see early armor(puma or flak) and wait til I can push with a ZiS but even then ZiS is slow and their vehicles fast so still hard to get back the map presence. How do you deal with this?

I definitely do build more infantry after what I mentioned. Usually more penals or conscripts, sometimes another sniper. And if I don't start with T1 build I just mentioned, I definitely go with the standard 4 conscript build (but not against OKW).

When I go with this build, I combine it with Guards to help against early armor. Pumas and Scout Cars get spanked by Guards, but most other anti-infantry vehicles (Panzer II, Ostwind) will give you a really hard time. Guards got nerfed in a patch not too long ago, and ever since then they've been lackluster. But pair them with a ZiS and you'll be perfect. Draw the vehicle to your ZiS and once the vehicle takes a hit and realizes its mistake, snare it with button and let your ZiS and Guards keep punishing it.

Snipers are great if you know how to use them. They enfuriate OKW players and they will rush some kind of light vehicle or ability to take revenge; so be ready to always move them back after your shots and have other units protecting them. Try to set up some kind of ambush: an AT gun, units lying in wait, etc.

Allright, guys, now tell me why everyone use M3A1+penals instead of M3A1+CE? CE have the same flamer, but can repair it.

I agree. I build Penals, but I always put Combat Engineers in the M3A1 because of what you said. Especially right after the first engagement. I send the M3/Engineer party bus to decap enemy points and punish lone units.

I'll throw Penals in an M3 when I need to send them to satchel a machine gun bunker or garrison. Brown uniforms, vans, and satchels? UPS delivery, right to your doorstep.

I'll throw Penals in an M3 when I need to send them to satchel a machine gun bunker or garrison. Brown uniforms, vans, and satchels? UPS delivery, right to your doorstep.

Funny But I always saw it as combat engineers are more important, especially in the late game. Planting mines and Keeping tanks repaired

I always skip t1 lol. Conscript-Maxim-2conscripts-2 guards, then one or 2 t34s and a couple at guns. 3 conscripts is a minimum that a player always must have imo, especially on city maps with lots of buildings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu3PflvT_sA

That was brilliant, thanks for sharing!

I'm starting to realize how effective well-managed Combat Engineers can be. Their lower cost means you can field more and capture more points, more easily repair your m3, plant mines on both sides of the map, and misdirect enemies from your snipers.