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COH2 Volks & Grens, are so trashy in first 6 mins

14 Oct 2014, 05:15 AM
#1
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779

I don't mind if they make them more expensive, but PLEASE, give us some squad can actually shoot.

You can say Grens having LMG or Volks after vet 3 or what, afterward making them viable, but shit dude, they are T1 infantry, not T2 infantry, why should they suck in T1 stage?

Rifles share the similar stupidity, they totally rape in T1 stage but after 8 mins, they are TRASH.

Why can't they just copy Volks and Rifles interaction from COH1? It feels 10X more balance than current shit.

:ot: Went back laddering in COH1, top 20 Wehr in 2 days, trustworthy Volks, Grens and MG42 making their COH2 counterpart, A JOKE :/
14 Oct 2014, 05:26 AM
#2
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

And cons are trashy through first 2 hours of the game(or whatever longest game was).

I suppose this is why you have Kubels/HMG42 in the same building as volks/grens.

If you enjoy spamming one type of unit, play allies.

Also, vcoh volks cost was 10 more then rifles.
14 Oct 2014, 06:32 AM
#3
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Oct 2014, 05:26 AMKatitof
And cons are trashy through first 2 hours of the game(or whatever longest game was).

I suppose this is why you have Kubels/HMG42 in the same building as volks/grens.

If you enjoy spamming one type of unit, play allies.

Also, vcoh volks cost was 10 more then rifles.


COH1 Wehr is the most combined arms faction, don't you know? <444>_<444>
14 Oct 2014, 06:48 AM
#4
avatar of Hagen67483

Posts: 65

If I’m not mistaken the MP upkeep of USF troops in COH1 was very high until you got the upgrades in the supply building. That means the WM had could afford to pay more for its troops because they paid less upkeep.
14 Oct 2014, 06:55 AM
#5
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1

If I’m not mistaken the MP upkeep of USF troops in COH1 was very high until you got the upgrades in the supply building. That means the WM had could afford to pay more for its troops because they paid less upkeep.
coh1 just had the right mix of ally early game favor and axis lategame favor, but both beeing able to win at every stage of the game
14 Oct 2014, 07:03 AM
#6
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

The fact is that ostheer grens cannot be played through spam anymore. To be efficient as ostheer in startgame you currently need everything from T1 (except snipers - anyway germna snipers were allways shit).
It's quite riscky for ostheer in startgame, but what's new? Conserve your infantry, and you'll be fine, lose one-two squads and you are doomed. That's the problem actually. For soviets, the penalty is not that serious. But this problem persists since COH2 was launched.
On OKW side though, you are using volks+sturms+kubel anyway, so the fact that volks are a little shitty it doesn't really bother me.
14 Oct 2014, 07:03 AM
#7
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1

b*tch please. really?
14 Oct 2014, 07:11 AM
#8
avatar of Cruzz

Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Oct 2014, 07:03 AMJohnnyB
The fact is that ostheer grens cannot be played through spam anymore. To be efficient as ostheer in startgame you currently need everything from T1 (except snipers - anyway germna snipers were allways shit).
It's quite riscky for ostheer in startgame, but what's new? Conserve your infantry, and you'll be fine, lose one-two squads and you are doomed. That's the problem actually. For soviets, the penalty is not that serious. But this problem persists since COH2 was launched.
On OKW side though, you are using volks+sturms+kubel anyway, so the fact that volks are a little shitty it doesn't really bother me.


I only got to top-10 with both by spamming grens (one MG42 as support at most) and volks (no kubels because I'm lazy and don't want to micro, nobody plays USF anyway), clearly this is totally unworkable :snfPeter:

I'm not sure what crack people are smoking to make them think volks or grens are weak, and I'm not sure I want any either, that stuff is clearly too strong.

14 Oct 2014, 07:47 AM
#9
avatar of HappyPhace

Posts: 309

Steps to be esports worthy:

1. Make 4 grens.

2. Upgrade grens with LMGs.

Congratulations you are now esports material. Add a fifth if you want to be super tryhard.
14 Oct 2014, 10:46 AM
#10
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Oct 2014, 07:11 AMCruzz


I only got to top-10 with both by spamming grens (one MG42 as support at most) and volks (no kubels because I'm lazy and don't want to micro, nobody plays USF anyway), clearly this is totally unworkable :snfPeter:

I'm not sure what crack people are smoking to make them think volks or grens are weak, and I'm not sure I want any either, that stuff is clearly too strong.



I don't know why you think the things you are saying are relevant. I'm sure you can scale to place 10 or whatever in the ladder even if you were allowed to play with just one infantry type, because you are you. And you are representing 2% of COH2 players. For the rest of us, it's not about one infantry type or the other is to weak or to strong (I find Porygon infantry units description quite accurate actualy), it's how you play and combine them. That is why the actual state of volks doesn't bother me even if, as a single unit, they are not strong, not by far.
Frankly, I am only smoking normal cigarettes, I can't give you the brand, because i don't want to make here illegal advertising B-)
14 Oct 2014, 11:12 AM
#11
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Oct 2014, 06:32 AMPorygon


COH1 Wehr is the most combined arms faction, don't you know? <444>_<444>


Its not like coh2 ost isn't you know.
14 Oct 2014, 12:16 PM
#12
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Oct 2014, 11:12 AMKatitof


Its not like coh2 ost isn't you know.


In fact, i also really enjoy playing Ostheer because they have the biggest combined arms feel.
14 Oct 2014, 12:40 PM
#13
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3

I actually think they are in a good spot. While being weak in early game, they are better than allies infantry starting from mid game.

Moreover I think allies should have their early game advantage.
14 Oct 2014, 14:05 PM
#14
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

Sure they may be bad... but once they get vet with schrecks and LMGS, they become beasts



It is only 6 minutes....think of those poor conscripts
14 Oct 2014, 14:06 PM
#15
avatar of Bryan

Posts: 412

Imo Volks and Grens are the strongest core infantry units. Volks due to the OKW vet system and their P.Shreck, they Scale into the late game really well. They also have a decent nade and can build sandbags.

Grens in the early game rely on positioning, they are pretty fragile but have decent firepower. With LMGS, again, they scale really well. They are susceptible to clumping up, which with 4 man squads is their biggest issue. Some maps don't favor Grens either.
14 Oct 2014, 14:19 PM
#16
avatar of theblitz6794

Posts: 395

AXIS FANBOY THREAD

1. Grens actually rape ass. Use some rifle nades and lmg42.
2. Volks are supposed to suck. OKW is designed to have weak early game. They fit their role as a weak stopgap infantry quite well though, especially with panzershrek and vet
14 Oct 2014, 14:23 PM
#17
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3

AXIS FANBOY THREAD

1. Grens actually rape ass. Use some rifle nades and lmg42.
2. Volks are supposed to suck. OKW is designed to have weak early game. They fit their role as a weak stopgap infantry quite well though, especially with panzershrek and vet


You know he's rank 35 with Ostheer? He knows how to use Grens.
14 Oct 2014, 14:24 PM
#18
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1

AXIS FANBOY THREAD

1. Grens actually rape ass. Use some rifle nades and lmg42.
2. Volks are supposed to suck. OKW is designed to have weak early game. They fit their role as a weak stopgap infantry quite well though, especially with panzershrek and vet


Relic pls fix. OKW has an amazing early game.
14 Oct 2014, 15:17 PM
#19
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

Riflemen in vCoH were strong against vCoH volks, and with vet, against grens. With BARs and vet, they surpassed vetted grens.

This dynamic was very interesting. It was also rigid. Wehrmacht vet in vCoH was like that.

In CoH2, all factions get vet the same way (including losing squad members) and they gain an array of gimmicky abilities. Gauging when and how a unit 'scales' is completely up to the course of the game (i.e. RNG/skills). In a manner of speaking, CoH2 is like Opposing Fronts 2, with gameplay being far more reminiscent of the Panzer Elite and British than either of the original factions.

Even Soviets v Ostheer feels more like the Ami v PE slugfests than anything.
14 Oct 2014, 15:40 PM
#20
avatar of 5trategos

Posts: 449

Factions are not balanced in time which is frustrating but extremely hard to get right. CoH1 was plagued with the same issue for most of its lifetime.

I would argue that it still is too because in the vCoH meta, Wehr are expected to survive on less territory at the start. People just got used to it consider part of the design now.

Back to CoH2, the window where volks and grens are vulnerable is damn small (5-6min).

On the priority list of problems, I would rank this pretty low. I'd rather Relic focus on Romeo's list of game-breaking bugs, call-in meta, etc.
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